Looking for input from anyone that has fished rods with stainless rings, and monofilament. Primarily lighter spinning rods (2# - 8# Lines).

The guides are very light, enough to notice, which is really nice. But it seems they put some extra wear on the line. After casting a couple of hours, I notice the last foot or so to get a little "curly".

Some of the ones I have used where the ring and frame are all coated the same, you can feel the drag when you pull down on the line and load the rod, and it even makes noise.

I have started to try the guides with the black frame and plain, uncoated stainless rings, and they actually seem the smoothest, and cause this curling the least.

Most guys that I build them for don't complain about it, so it may just be the detail oriented, rod builder/angler in me. But would appreciate any input - if they fish just fine for you, or less so.

Thank you!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2023 08:22AM by Marc Morrone.

I have one rod built using Pac Bay Minima guides. The M model match guides for the reduction train, and the F model guides for the running guides. They are the Titanium TiBlack series. It's my pan fish rod, so the heaviest weights I have used with it are probably about 3/16 oz total bait weight, with the heaviest fish I've caught with it being a 14" crappie.

I use 4# Suffix Elite nylon mono filament line, and have noticed nothing out of the ordinary that I don't normally notice when using nylon mono filament line. I would attribute the kind of stuff you're mentioning more to the actual line being used, rather than the guides themselves. It's just part of using nylon mono filament.

Maybe others have different experiences than I.

Agree with David's conclusion. Keep in mind that for many years rods were made with stainless steel rings and mono was probably the most used line, and it worked fine. But make sure your guides have not been nicked or otherwise compromised.

Take a cotton Q-Tip and run it around the inside of the guide rings. If you can't get it all the way in, just use the end of the tip to twist against the guide ring on each side. There is some chance you might have a small plating imperfection or similar that could be causing that line damage.

...........

Hello Marc.

I agree with David and Michael, if you want to check your guides for nicks just run a cotton ball through the guides, if there is damage it will snag the cotton ball.

Good Luck.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Marc Morrone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After casting a couple of
> hours, I notice the last foot or so to get a
> little "curly".

Marc...I notice this happens even with ceramic guides.
Its just a byproduct of repeated casting...a sign to re-tie.

All excellent feedback - thank you guys!

And thanks for the last comment Chris - that was my last comparison to run - as I think have seen the similar thing with ceramics, but never paid close enough attention at the time.

And yes - type / brand of monofilament can make a huge difference!

So thanks everyone!

Hi Marc,
I have noticed a little drag from the dry mono when doing static line test. I have not noticed the drag when actually fishing, probably because the line is usually wet. I have noticed the noise from light fireline when fishing with these guides.
You may remember when the first rods using aluminum oxide inserts were being sold. At that time some of the rods came with aluminum oxide stripper and tip top. I think that might give you freer line flow, without the weight from using all ceramic guides.

You are right Gary - the drag that is really standing out is dry mono while testing. Wet is less so. I was thinking of playing with a nice ceramic tip more.

That's what I was referring to when I said it was just part of using nylon mono filament line. UV rays, water itself, and the wet and dry cycle really do a number on it. It's a good line in the fact that it's inexpensive and handles well on all types of reels, but it degrades fairly quickly.

It still has its' place. But that place doesn't occupy as much space as it once did all those many years ago. At least not for me.

I would probably fish braid more, except I fish rocky rivers and stump infested flowages. This presents two problems:

1. If you don't use a mono or flouro leader you often just get less bites
2. When you snag - you often break off the leader, so now you are tying on a new leader and a jig, not just a jig. Get's old and time consuming.

And way around that?

"Any way around that?"

Use a jig to leader knot that tests out at lower strength than leader to main line knot. The other option is to use jigs with lighter hooks that will straighten out before your leader/line breaks.

I used a loop knot that was basically a simple overhand knot with the tag end passed through that knot and finished with a half hitch. I think it was about a 50% of line strength knot.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Agree with Russell. I seldom if ever lose the leader. I use an "improved" Alberto for the line to leader and an "improved" clinch knot for the lure.

For UL Rods with light mono these stainless ring guides will work great. I’ve never had a problem with them If you want extra security or piece of mind then use a ceramic tip top.
Norm

Marc, I definitely feel your pain when you mention you're fishing rivers and flowages. Too light of a weight and you don't get bit. Too heavy of a weight and you hang up all the time. One thing you didn't mention as a problem, and that is, at least in my limited experience with it ..... braid is worse in current than a mono filament line. Either nylon, co polymer, or fluorocarbon. Yes braid has a smaller diameter per break strength, but it's a textured line, which effectively increases its' surface area. Not only is surface area increased, the texture creates areas on the line that catch the current. Be it water current, or air current. I posted in a different thread how I haven't tried any of the smoother more "quiet" braids, and they may be better at not catching wind and current, but it's still a textured surface, and that increases surface area. So in reality, the difference in surface area from braid to say a fluorocarbon line, isn't as great as simply their difference in diameter. Also, fluorocarbon line is more dense than braid, so it sinks.

I used to fish the Ohio River for bass quite a bit, and I used to do quite a bit of steehead fishing in the rivers and streams that enter Lake Erie. Switching from a nylon mono filament line to a fluorocarbon mono filament line made a big difference in the amount of weight I needed to use to keep my baits on or near the bottom. Logic would dictate that the smaller diameter of the fluorocarbon line, and the fact that fluorocarbon sinks or at least sinks faster than nylon mono filament were major contributors to not needing as much weight.

As far as the conundrum you're facing .... while I understand the suggestions of trying different strength knots, it sure wouldn't be the route I would try first. I want every knot to be as strong as it can be. Especially in environments like rocky river bottom and the like. Personally, I would look to switching the material I was using for weight, first. Meaning if you aren't already using them, I'd give tungsten weights a try. Definitely more expensive, but I know that I have hung up less often when fishing heavy cover for largemouth bass, or rocky bottoms for smallmouth bass using tungsten weights, than I did when I used larger sized for the same weight, lead weights. The smaller size has less surface area so I you can get by with lighter weight, and the smaller weights don't seem to wedge as tightly in cover. Definitely better in wood cover, and sure seems to hang up less often in rock and gravel.

Personally, if using spinning gear, I'd go to a fluorocarbon line and see how that works out for you. I've tried a lot of fluorocarbon lines on spinning gear and Seaguar Tatsu is by far the best handling line on spinning gear that I have found. But just like tungsten jigs and weights, it's expensive. If not fluorocarbon then I'd try one of the fused super lines for the smooth surfaces that they have. It's going to cut down water resistance over braided line, and allow the use of lighter weights.

I get the suggestion of light wire hooks that bend out more easily. But from my thinking the only reason (and it's a good reason) to use a lighter wire hook so you get your bait back, is so you don't break off and pollute the water with a lead weight. Most light wire hooks, if they are hung up bad enough to need to bend the hook to free the bait, absolutely destroy the point of the hook. I use light wire hooks quite often. But isn't so I can get the hook to bend to free a bait. It's because I want better hook penetration with lighter line, and lower powered rods. Or a better hook set on a long cast. But I get it ......... if it saves having to tie on a new leader, it's a break even kind of thing.

Sorry about the long post. I've been home from work the past couple of days with a pretty bad cold. I got nothing else to do. lol



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2023 02:08PM by David Baylor.

Marc,
You probably saw this: [www.rodbuilding.org] . There was some discussion on the stainless ring guides in it. For me, the discussion especially between Geoff and Rick, provided a lot of information.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2023 10:14AM by Gary Weber.

One thing I can say, is over the years I have seen 2 or 3 tip tops come back grooved. Bass guys that cast and crank a lot.

I don't think I have ever seen one grooved on light duty rods like panfish and walleye spinning rods.

I have seen tons of ceramic tips with the rings popped out or cracked. I personally have never done it, but for guys that are less careful with their stuff, it's pretty common.

I had some rods with black guides. They are matted color black, not shiny. Including inside the ring. Ring material is non ceramic. After using them a while, they showed wear on the rings. The line wore out the black coating and the silvery metal underneath the coating is showing. They sucked and caused greater line wear and are very noticeably not smooth, which affected casting distance and on many occasions caused wind knots.

Don't use the cheap guides which may be like described above. Beside, those may be found on cheap production rods. For me, that becomes another rod building project.

Feel the inside of the ring, if it feels smooth and polished, that may be what you are looking for. I recommend using quality polished metal guides from reliable manufacturers.

I've been using Minima and SSR guides for a few years on all my bass rods and not only are they very light they're inexpensive. I've grooved the tip tops but never a running guide and now use a ceramic tip top. In rivers I fish I use 6 lb mono and never noticed curling.

My stepdad's very old Fenwick FS 83S had the old wire double foots spinning guides and a ceramic tip top, G Loomis and many others went from an REC tip top to a ceramic one only one year after they introduced the guides to the public. Same with the high-end Cabela's rods back then.