Hi all,
I haven't posted in some time because there are few good fly rod questions.
Maybe the builders are getting better - or fly fishing is in a down-swing.

I only build fly rods - so feeling kind of lonely.

Herb
CTS Rep

Buck up, Herb. You've taught us so well we're in pretty good shape. :-)

I'm always at a loss for sizing, so next time around I'll call on you.

I’ve got one for you; what do you think about a fly rod made from Bastson 6’ 6’’ RX 6 Inshore Popping Multipurpose SP781-2CG blanks?

What do you think of this list? Seems like each of these could be a topic all on its own:

1.) What species of fish do you chase, and what are your preferred rods and weights for them? Why do you like this weight of rod for that purpose?
2.) What influences your choice of guide style or type?
3.) Guide Train size, type, and layout for your most used rods and the species of fish you chase with them.
4.) Your favorite flyrod grip style - and what it is made of? Also, reel seat favorites.
5.) Fighting Butts: When do you use one - and when not?
6.) Ever use a Line Tamer Guide?
7.) How does a Euro Nymph rod differ from other rods? How did this technique shake things up for current fly rod builds and paradigms?

Are any new innovations out there in terms of fly rods and fly fishing? There have been many new ideas and concepts for spinning and casting rods in the past decade or two in response tomodern braid and micro guides. Is it the same for fly rods? For example, the Euro Nymph technique seems relatively new. What changes has this made in the fly rod world?

:-))) Christian,
Not exactly what I had in mind :-))).
being a Rep for CTS - if a customer, or I, wanted a 6.5' fly rod - Stephen Pratt would design it - AS A FLY BLANK.
YE - one can put a flyline on any stick and call it a fly rod. I have heard of various fly rod builds on spinning blanks - but not my cup of tea.

Herb

2 things I have noticed with fly rods over the past several years:

Resurgence in Fiberglass, especially for the custom rod builders.

For Carbon rods, I seem to do more business with folks looking for rods with a medium to slower taper, rolled with 33 million modulus carbon.

Les Cline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you think of this list? Seems like each of
> these could be a topic all on its own:
>
> 1.) What species of fish do you chase, and what
> are your preferred rods and weights for them? Why
> do you like this weight of rod for that purpose?

IMO there are only 3 fish:

Striped Bass
Snook
Redfish

Fly rods I use are a function of wind, distance I have to cast and fly size and type.
My favorite fly to start with is a Gurgler (surface fly). So, I fish floating lines 99% of the time. One can do any of the things one can do with an internediate line - plur mending and fish floaters.
My favorite for heavy conditions is my custom designed CTS Prime FSA909-4. Casts unbelieable tight loops with a RIO OB Short #9. If I want to use a longer head - the SA Apliitude Smooth Infinity #9 or #10 - If I feel I have to overline. Both floaters.

> 2.) What influences your choice of guide style or type?

Done a lot of experimentation with guides to keep flyline off the blank.
Stage #1 - on my #9 and #10 - Fuji Ti SIC rings in #20 and #16. Then REC Recoil S/F runner. For #8-10 #4runners.

Later iteration: Fuji Ti Torzite #20 and #16.
Later again to keep line off the blank as much as possible: Fuji Ti Torzite #20 then REC Recoil S/F Spinning guides in #16, #12, #10.

> 3.) Guide Train size, type, and layout for your.

I like , and use, the "old fashioned" progressive trin. i.e. 20, 16, 12, 10, S/F #5 the rest #4's. For ligter rods Iwill use #16, 12, 10, S/F #4, the rst #3
> most used rods and the species of fish you chase
> with them.

> 4.) Your favorite flyrod grip style - and what it.

Since I fish only Saltwater - I started turning full wells. But 4-5 yrs ago switched to 100% the Ritz Grip. But modified to have a pronounced flare front and back.
Also exterimented with CF Grips. found they get more grippy when wet with freash water - BUT VERY slippery when wet with saltwater. Had a custom grip made with texture still present, This was too hard on my casting hand. All my CF grips have been removed in favor of the best cork I can buy.
> is made of? Also, reel seat favorites.

I onlu use REC RSLL or RSLS seats. I find that they hold a fly reel foot the best.
> 5.) Fighting Butt

YES - longest 1 7/8" down to 1.5"

s: When do you use one - and when
> not?

I only fish the Salt with lines #7 - #10. So always.

> 6.) Ever use a Line Tamer Guide?

Used to - heard about it on RB.Org many yrs ago. Took them off yrs ago

> 7.) How does a Euro Nymph rod differ from other
> rods? How did this technique shake things up for
> current fly rod builds and paradigms?

Typically E N rods have a softer tio to facilitate "flipping the fly.

CTS started to cater to EN ing by designing and building an 11'0" Affinity-X with a depowered tip by one rod weight.
Now they make 2 dedicated 10'6" ENing blanks - a 2 wt and a 3 wt. The tipd are depowered.
The 11'0" Affinity-X is still considered a good ENing rod - as-is.. But , as I said, the 11'0" #3 is available with a depowered tip.
>
> Are any new innovations out there in terms of fly
> rods and fly fishing? There have been many new
> ideas and concepts for spinning and casting rods
> in the past decade or two in response tomodern
> braid and micro guides. Is it the same for fly
> rods? For example, the Euro Nymph technique seems
> relatively new. What changes has this made in the
> fly rod world?

Fly lines do not lend themselves to mini guides.
Some "advances" i fly blanks like Boron and Nano Materials and Graphene - if used at all - can make up sush a small part of the blank's composition that they don't matter - and hve no effect on the blank's action or recovery rate.
As a matter of fact - too much Graphine will cause the blank to be brittle.

Herb
CTS Rep



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2023 02:22PM by Herb Ladenheim.

Excellent responses, Herb! Thank you!

Herb

100% Ritz? How about for lighter weight rods, 1 or 2 weights? I too favor the Ritz but my hands shake just thinking about the aesthetics of a Ritz on a very skinny rod.

Donald,
Hmmmmmm
Never thought about that - since I never built one.
But - thinking about it - I agree with you.
Herb

OK Herb,

If I may...

"Done a lot of experimentation with guides to keep flyline off the blank.
Stage #1 - on my #9 and #10 - Fuji Ti SIC rings in #20 and #16. Then REC Recoil S/F runner. For #8-10 #4runners."

As related to the above, I'm not sure what Fuji guides you are referring to., ie, the Fuji Ti SiC guides. And are they single or double foot guides? Also, I assume the REC Recoil runners you refer to are their single foot heavy duty salt water fly rod guides. Is this correct?

"Later iteration: Fuji Ti Torzite #20 and #16.
Later again to keep line off the blank as much as possible: Fuji Ti Torzite #20 then REC Recoil S/F Spinning guides in #16, #12, #10."

As related to the above...again...I'm having trouble identifying the Fuji guide. Then you refer to REC Recoil S/F Spinning guides, starting with #20, then tapering to #16, #12 and #10. Are these all spinning guides? And the only REC Recoil spinning guides I can find are all high frame guides. Is that so? Are you using four high frame spinning guides on this guide train? Sorry if the questions seem dumb, but at least they're honest! :-)

I also have a question about fly guide sizing. My understanding is that "size numbers" are not terribly informative as far as fly guide diameters are concerned. Actually, without any industry standard, they are essentially worthless. Is that so in your opinion? I read the article in the "Library" of this board, and the gist of that article was to use the smallest diameter guides that get the job done, and don't get too crazy with reducing guide size from base to tip. Well, I for sure don't have the luxury of keeping an inventory of guides. When I plan to build a rod, I procure the components at that time, and hope for the best after doing my research. So I will never have the luxury (or the pain in the neck) of strapping on different guide sets to practice casting with. The article also suggests that if nothing else, the guides should be big enough to pass the largest typical knot one might use while fishing. Again, unless I have a particular reason to need a crazy long leader, I usually try to land a fish without dragging the knot(s) associated with the rig through the guides. When I used to fish for tarpon, the last thing you wanted was to drag the knots through the length of the rod, and have the fish catch a second wind and ........

I built an 8wt 4pc 9 foot rod whose blank I picked up at the Orvis clearance shop in Vermont a while back. The blank is what Orvis called a Power Matrix 10, and the date of my completion of the rod is 3/22/03. I casted the rod for the first time a few weeks ago! I was able to throw the entire 100' of line with little trouble. So...at least in this instance I am happy. I have two double foot stripping guides and 7 wire runners. The bottom stripper actually measures 14mm across the inside edge of the outer ring. The other stripper measures 11mm across the inside edge of the outer ring.. Since I don't think they made 11s and 14s, I'm assuming I attempted to purchase a 12 and a 16. The wire runners are all 7mm inside diameter. Who knows what "number" they were touted to be when I bought them. The tip top is wire and measures 8mm inside diameter.

Is there any good reason that I couldn't follow essentially what I did twenty years ago with this rod, with a new one?

Sorry to bother you with these questions, but it's been a while since I put a fly rod together as you can see. Thanks for your expertise.

Bill Hickey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2 things I have noticed with fly rods over the
> past several years:
>
> Resurgence in Fiberglass, especially for the
> custom rod builders.
>
> For Carbon rods, I seem to do more business with
> folks looking for rods with a medium to slower
> taper, rolled with 33 million modulus carbon.

That is where I am now. More glass and IM6 or whatever it is. Taper and bend profile. A nice tip and junk in the trunk.

On the single foots I have tried, Fuji KW-KB-KT Ti/Sic/tor. 16-12-8-7-6 in different combos. Rec SF spinning in regular and cerrecoil. Did a couple ESN with size 5. They are small. The only negative to the sf is rodtubes on a micro-skiff.

Here, here Herb
Great comment and great answers.
I build fly rods for freinds and family. I fish small streams for trout mostly.

Ernie Blum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK Herb,
>
> If I may...
>
> "Done a lot of experimentation with guides to keep
> flyline off the blank.
> Stage #1 - on my #9 and #10 - Fuji Ti SIC rings in
> #20 and #16. Then REC Recoil S/F runner. For #8-10
> #4runners."
>
> As related to the above, I'm not sure what Fuji
> guides you are referring to., ie, the Fuji Ti SiC

FUJI KWSG (TITANUIM WITH SIC RINGS

> guides. And are they single or double foot
> guides? Also, I assume the REC Recoil runners you
> refer to are their single foot heavy duty salt
> water fly rod guides. Is this correct?
>
> "Later iteration: Fuji Ti Torzite #20 and #16.

FUJI KWTG (TITANIUM WITH TORZITE RINGS)

> Later again to keep line off the blank as much as
> possible: Fuji Ti Torzite #20 then REC Recoil S/F
> Spinning guides in #16, #12, #10."

REC RSPG SINGLE FOOT SPINNING REOILS
AFTER THE #20 FUJI STRIPPER - THEN THE REC SINGLE FOOT RECOILS #16, #12, #10
[reelseats.com]
>
> As related to the above...again...I'm having
> trouble identifying the Fuji guide. Then you
> refer to REC Recoil S/F Spinning guides, starting
> with #20, then tapering to #16, #12 and #10. Are
> these all spinning guides? And the only REC
> Recoil spinning guides I can find are all high
> frame guides. Is that so? Are you using four
> high frame spinning guides on this guide train?
> Sorry if the questions seem dumb, but at least
> they're honest! :-)
>
> I also have a question about fly guide sizing. My
> understanding is that "size numbers" are not
> terribly informative as far as fly guide diameters
> are concerned. Actually, without any industry
> standard, they are essentially worthless. Is that
> so in your opinion?

I FIND THAT ALL RUNNING GUIDES ARE PRETTY UNIFORM AS TO SIZE.
REMEMBER THAT CERAMIC SIZES AND MEASURED FROM THE FRAME AND NOT THE RING.

I read the article in the
> "Library" of this board, and the gist of that
> article was to use the smallest diameter guides
> that get the job done, and don't get too crazy
> with reducing guide size from base to tip. Well,
> I for sure don't have the luxury of keeping an
> inventory of guides. When I plan to build a rod,
> I procure the components at that time, and hope
> for the best after doing my research. So I will
> never have the luxury (or the pain in the neck) of
> strapping on different guide sets to practice
> casting with.

IMO - WASTE OF TIME. I.E. #10 FLY ROD CAN USE #3 OR #4 RUNNERS. i'VE USED BOTH BUT PREFER THE #4'S FOR SNARLES
The article also suggests that if
> nothing else, the guides should be big enough to
> pass the largest typical knot one might use while
> fishing.

AGAIN - NONSENCE. YOU SHOULD NEVER BRING A LEADER KNOT INTO THE GUIDE TRAIN.

Again, unless I have a particular reason
> to need a crazy long leader, I usually try to land
> a fish without dragging the knot(s) associated
> with the rig through the guides. When I used to
> fish for tarpon, the last thing you wanted was to
> drag the knots through the length of the rod, and
> have the fish catch a second wind and ........
>
> I built an 8wt 4pc 9 foot rod whose blank I picked
> up at the Orvis clearance shop in Vermont a while
> back. The blank is what Orvis called a Power
> Matrix 10, and the date of my completion of the
> rod is 3/22/03. I casted the rod for the first
> time a few weeks ago! I was able to throw the
> entire 100' of line with little trouble. So...at
> least in this instance I am happy. I have two
> double foot stripping guides and 7 wire runners.
> The bottom stripper actually measures 14mm across
> the inside edge of the outer ring. The other
> stripper measures 11mm across the inside edge of
> the outer ring.. Since I don't think they made
> 11s and 14s, I'm assuming I attempted to purchase
> a 12 and a 16. The wire runners are all 7mm
> inside diameter.

SOUNDS LIKE THE 7MM WIRE RINGS ARE #6. IF SO, MUCH TOO LARGE.
IMO - #4'S ARE CORRECT SIZE

Who knows what "number" they
> were touted to be when I bought them. The tip top
> is wire and measures 8mm inside diameter.

8MM MUCH TOO LARGE. WAS THIS A FLY ROD TIP-TOP??
>
> Is there any good reason that I couldn't follow
> essentially what I did twenty years ago with this
> rod, with a new one?

IMO - I WOULD NOT USE THE FORMER FORMULA
>
> Sorry to bother you with these questions, but it's
> been a while since I put a fly rod together as you
> can see. Thanks for your expertise.

Thanks for the response Herb. It is much appreciated.

Do you have any idea what the ball park ring span of #4 single foot guides are in millimeters? And concerning the tip top...what should the ring size be in proportion to the ring sizes of the running guides? Should they essentially be the same size?

Never understood the "fly line off the blank" comments, as fly rod guides are under the blank on both the forward cast and playing the fish! The only time it should contact the bank is on the back cast which will have little or no impact.

Phil Erickson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"The
> only time it should contact the bank is on the
> back cast which will have little or no impact."

On a technicality, I assume you mean that the line is closest to the blank at the end of the back cast, as the rod has now stopped and the line is now moving behind the caster, the guides are facing the sky, and the line is being pulled by gravity down to what is the underside (which is now facing the sky) of the rod. While the rod is in motion on the back cast, the line is plastered to the bottom aspects of the guides and as far away from the blank as the sizes of the guides will allow.

That said, I am also curious about what keeping the fly line off the blank actually refers to, and what significance it may have. Come back Herb. :-)

Ernie,
When I referred to the need to keep the line off the fly rod blank- I meant that when going for distance and the caster does not allow the line to slide through, or over, the line hand - the line will "bounce" within the guides and rub on the blank creating friction.
That's the reason "tamer" guide placement 7- 8 inches forward of the stripper was introduced.
The phenomenon is most noticeable between the reel and stripper. I.e. line wrap.
Herb
PS
Phil
Actually it's just at the START of the forward cast that the line comes into STATIC contact with the blank. It's inconsequential for performance.

Phil
Actually you would be correct but only if one shoots into their back cast



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2023 09:28PM by Herb Ladenheim.

Things sure have got a lot more technical than when I built my last fly rod almost 40 years ago. A 10' Powell 2-piece 7/8wt. Still fishes great IMHO and now almost have a PacBay Tradition II 10', 2-piece, 5wt ready to get out on the water for a trial run. I went with single foot guides all the way except for the stripping guide. I basically let Andy Snedden at Rod Builder Supplies out of Victoria, BC select the sizes rather than doing a lot of research here and elsewhere to figure out what to get. I have them wrapped on temporarily with the one spool of Size B thread I had from yesteryear as I can barely see what I'm doing with the Size A threads I ordered from him not really knowing what size to expect. I have a headset magnifier on the way but our season up here in n. Alberta is rapidly coming to an end and I want to get on the water and fish this rod with new, inexpensive 5 and 6wt lines to see which will really work the best. I really hope it's the 5wt as I have a couple of 6wt rods that can share.

My question really is that the last 4 guides at the top seem pretty small at 3.75mm compared to the ID of wire guides and was wondering what others think about this?

Because of my difficulties wrapping with the finer threads I plan to redo all of them over our long, dark and very chilly winter so will just use a light coat U-40 Color Lock 2 to keep the wraps on for now. Also allows me to further look into how I want to do the final wraps and practise the various techniques to accomplish them on scrap rods. Also to maybe use different guides tho I am really liking the look of the singles. All silver on a very dark non-glossy blank using silver and black metallic ProWrap threads. I'm itching to feel my DIY custom shaped half-wells grip when there's 50ft of line in the air. Big end at the top. I bought a cheap 6wt when the other broke and it has the big end at the bottom and how does anyone hold that configuration is beyond me but it must work for some. Mine is a bit thicker than my other rods with similar grips and has a 2nd shallower dip below the top one that my arthritic index finger sits in perfect. Banded with regular and dark corks and wish I could afford the cork cutting dies set to make something even more unique but ya never know.

I'm using that Flex Coat Guide Foot Adhesive to try to get the guides on but it's awkward to work with and if you have to move it at all it's unstuck. I'm thinking I can just get a nice coat on the foot then use thin plastic coated twist tie off a roll to bind them down. Do all of them like that on the top section lined up as close as I can. Then very carefully get them all in line and to get them to stay there I heat up a metal object like the back end of tweezers on my alcohol lamp then carefully touch it to the foot to melt the glue and let it cool. I've been doing this without the wire and it works pretty good. Good inspection and fix any before starting to wrap. Gonna have to be careful to not bang any around but I think it's doable.

What your thoughts on this?

I hope that all makes sense as it's late and it's been a tiring last few days around here.

Tight lines!

“The gods do not deduct from man’s allotted span the hours spent in fishing.” - Herbert Hoover

"My question really is that the last 4 guides at the top seem pretty small at 3.75mm compared to the ID of wire guides and was wondering what others think about this?"

Bruce,
That will be fine - although I would prefer a little larger.
But the big issue in my mind is that, it seems from your wording, that you are using ceramic-ring guides all the way. I personally am not a fan of ceramic runners. I believe that they slows downthe rods recovery rate - makes the rod softer vs wire guides - especially on a #5 rod.
What broand and model arethe runners?
Herb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2023 10:55AM by Herb Ladenheim.