Let me first apologize for such a crappy post last night. There was no where enough info to answer it, so thank you for those who so graciously did without pointing out the errors of my ways.
I fly fish mostly subsurface with a sinking line, sometimes dries, never nymph. So I like a rod with power in the butt and some softness in the tip. Finished, or unfinished makes no difference to me.

First question:
I've been building on MHX blanks from Mudhole for a while. Specifically the MHX 9'0" 5 wt. Fly Rod Blank - F905-4. (https://mudhole.com/products/mhx-90-5-wt-fly-rod-blank-f905-4?_pos=2&_sid=55f7c7cd0&_ss=r). But I've been building for others and I broke my TFO, so it's time to build my own rod.
There really isn't enough information on the Mudhole site for me to differentiate between that and their native line: MHX 9'0" 5 wt. Native Fly Rod Blank - NF905-4 (https://mudhole.com/products/mhx-90-5-wt-native-fly-rod-blank-nf905-4?_pos=3&_sid=55f7c7cd0&_ss=r)

Can anybody tell me how these blanks compare?

Next question:
In the same price range are North Fork Composite rods, which I have no experience on. Loomis is a legend so I'd kind of like to fish one of his blanks so I'm looking if anybody has built on any of these blanks and can compare them to MHX blanks:
LMX FAF905-4 (https://northforkcomposites.com/product/faf905-4/)
F 590-4 (GammaAlpha) (https://northforkcomposites.com/product/f-590-4-gamma-alpha/)
F 590-4 (GammaBeta) (https://northforkcomposites.com/product/f-590-4-gamma-beta/)
F 905-4F (Classic) (https://northforkcomposites.com/product/f-905-4f-im/)
le
This site has some great info, but it is a bit contradictory to me eye. EG Rods labeled "moderate" have less flex than those labeled "fast." Also different levels of description, but there are some great sales on. So to the point that price = value, I'd be interested in differentiating these rods.

I think that is it, and once again, it speaks to the quality of this board you didn't dump on me for posting to fast.

jontobey@yahoo.com
www.gointothelight.wordpress.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2023 03:44PM by jon tobey.

Each company has numerous grades and types of blanks, and both make quality blanks. It is my experience that generally you get what you pay for.

jon

I have built on both brands of blank and agree with Mick. To be honest, I have never built an NFC or MHX rod of comparable quality, length, action, recovery and power. I do like and fish both brands frequently.

A critically important distinction when discussing 'comparisons' is that terms like 'Extra Fast', 'Medium Power', etc. are sometimes wildly variable from brand to brand and/or blank to blank - to the point of being meaningless. Here is where I'll insert another shameless plug for the Common Cents System - a simple tool that yields measurable and repeatable numbers for comparing one rod or blank to another. It's the only real way to compare, IMO. Add Mick's TNF (True Natural Frequency), and then you can really dial it in for a comparison.

Some MHX blanks are painted, and I have never seen a painted NFC blank. Also, NFC has two basic, un-painted finishes: Mirror Black and Un-Sanded. The un-sanded blanks have a rougher texture that some do not like....and others do. Just be sure you order the type of finish you want to avoid any WTH? moments when your order arrives. I really like the Un-Sanded Delta line of blanks from NFC for their quality to price point value.

Hope that helps a little.

Since TNF has been mentioned I will add that I have tested one MHX, 2 MHX Elite Pro, and two NFC's, (an Xray and what I think is called "fast glass crankbait blank) The Elite Pros had the highest TNF and felt very clean and crisp. The "fast glass" feels slow and "clubby" by comparison. Feels like one would expect glass to feel. I'm not saying it's bad; it's glass.

I've done similar comparisons between lower level and top level blanks in the past and the more you pay, the higher the modulus, generally, the higher the TNF and the better the blanks feel when built into rods. That is why I said that generally one gets what they pay for.

By extension, the heavier the guides the more the TNF gets slowed by the mass on the blank. IT DOES make a difference; you can measure it and you can generally feel it.

I started building on MHX blanks and I’d say they were the best bang for the buck… back THEN. Today, the Elite X’s are around $150 and no, I don’t think they stand out in that price range today. The X-rays are a much better blank at a much better price (when on sale) these days.

Loomis was always considered by me as one of the top rods in Bass fishing (my personal experience through use), but when I took up fly fishing and asked a friend (who was a serious fly fisherman, guide, and builder) what he thought about “Loomis”, he basically felt they were just middle of the road among the serious fly fishing community. I would guess MHX isn’t even in that conversation, but I have never personally tried one of their blanks.

Hard to beat MHX’s warranty policy and turn around.

First time I've heard an opinion that Loomis fly blanks are middle of the road . They get praised like no other especially the Asquith and NRX . Haven't heard anything about how good the NFC fly blanks are but I'm sure they are very good.


I agree with Michaels comment below:

"I've done similar comparisons between lower level and top level blanks in the past and the more you pay, the higher the modulus, generally, the higher the TNF and the better the blanks feel when built into rods. That is why I said that generally one gets what they pay for"



Don't forget just because a blank may be advertised as being high modulus it's rarely the case since manufacturers are allowed to say a blank is high modulus despite a blank in actuality only containing very little high modulus material . You can advertise a blank as being high modulus if a certain percentage of high modulus material is used in it's construction . Good luck finding out what the real percentages are of high modulus material being used in a blanks construction , that's kept close to the vest . If a blank is really constructed of top notch high modulus carbon it's not going to be cheap . High modulus carbon is much much more expensive than lower modulus carbon so any blank advertised as high modulus yet has a very affordable price tag is a big red flag .

It's one of the reasons I decided to have CTS build a few surf blanks for me because I knew I could trust Stephen Pratt to use the material I requested in it's design and construction . Sure it's not cheap but I was willing to pay for the higher performance potential .

High modulus carbon is capable of storing and releasing more energy than lower modulus carbon so it's capable of higher performance but only if the design is very well thought out and implemented as well as the manufacturing process.

MHX banks have an incredibly experienced long time successful designer in Todd Vivian formally of Lamiglas and what can be said about the legendary Gary Loomis that hasn't already been said . Can't go wrong with either brand , personal preference .

Just to clarify, the comment made to me about Loomis being “middle of the road” among fly fishing enthusiasts was made before they came out with the NRX and the Asquith. High modulus doesn’t make a fly rod special though and there are a lot of $1000+ high end fly rods out there. The NRX and The Asquith were out when I chose mine but I settled on the Scott G Series. It was about the “feel” for me, and none of Loomis’ offerings were in the same ball park.

As much as I love G Loomis (for bass fishing), I have noticed lately that their finished rods (NRX+) is pretty shoddy on craftsmanship (might be that I see things differently now that I build my own).

Mick and Chris,

The findings about MHX top of the line (Elite Pro) out performing NFC's top of the line (X-Ray) in TNF is interesting.

I understand why a higher modulus material is stiffer and recovers quicker - it is physics. I'm less clear about the role taper design plays in TNF and recovery. (This discussion is probably best for another topic - however, it does relate to the differences between NFC and MHX and taper designs as I have experienced them.) Perhaps taper or design plays no significant roll in TNF?

I bring up taper design in reference to the OP as a possible difference between the two brands. There is a difference, in my experience, between where and how these brands flex when both may say they are the same Action.

Of course, a major caveat is that I have not tested two blanks of comparable length, power, action.....etc. And, everyone is different about where and how they like a rod to flex for a given kind of fishing.

Les Cline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mick and Chris,
>
> The findings about MHX top of the line (Elite Pro)
> out performing NFC's top of the line (X-Ray) in
> TNF is interesting.
>
> I understand why a higher modulus material is
> stiffer and recovers quicker - it is physics. I'm
> less clear about the role taper design plays in
> TNF and recovery. (This discussion is probably
> best for another topic - however, it does relate
> to the differences between NFC and MHX and taper
> designs as I have experienced them.) Perhaps taper
> or design plays no significant roll in TNF?
>
> I bring up taper design in reference to the OP as
> a possible difference between the two brands.
> There is a difference, in my experience, between
> where and how these brands flex when both may say
> they are the same Action.
>
> Of course, a major caveat is that I have not
> tested two blanks of comparable length, power,
> action.....etc. And, everyone is different about
> where and how they like a rod to flex for a given
> kind of fishing.st

In the links I provided, the NFC site shows images of their rods deflecting. However the descriptions don't match the images.
As far as higher modulus equaling better quality, well I would think that bamboo and fiberglass pretty much debunk that myth. As well as few people can cast the stiffest rods. I'm reminded of when I taught skiing and everybody would get the newest, stiffest race skis. And then skid them around. I see all kinds of people who can afford top of the line rods (I cannot), whipping them into a frenzy trying to make a cast. I hold no illusions that a med-fast rod is most likely the fastest rod I can cast.

Jon , nobody said a higher modulus rod equals a better quality rod . The only thing that has been said is that higher modulus material is capable of storing and releasing more energy thus is capable of performing on a higher level IF the design is just as sound .

Bamboo and fiberglass rods aren't capable of storing and releasing the kind of energy that a modern high modulus rod is capable of but most understand this and view it as a good thing . Many choose and prefer rods that are not designed to cast the furthest and generate the fastest possible lines speeds .

Joan Wulff still holds the ladies' record distance cast of 161 feet, which I think occurred in 1960 or 1961. It doesn't matter. She did it with a bamboo fly rod.

I'm a pretty good caster, couldn't come anywhere near that distance, and I'm betting my fly rods are better than anything she ever handled at that time. Rod blank technology has likely come a long way since the bamboo days, but it's still all useless unless someone behind that technology can properly utilize it. A good caster can pick up an old stick and make a good cast. You can hand a $1,000 fly rod to anyone who doesn't know how to use it, and "there ain't nothin' happening"! Same goes for spinning and casting rods.

Les, since I am a hobby builder and don't go through high volumes of blanks, my conclusions are based on a limited number of blanks. However, having said that, I do strongly believe based on my testing that GENERALLY, you get what you pay for. Higher priced blanks build into better rods and have higher TNF's. They cast farther. Keep in mind that TNF basically is a parallel measurement to stiffness to weight ratio which for decades has been considered a major indicator of high sensitivity and generally high performance. . . But. . . there are some surprises. A Rainshadow RX6 3 piece travel rod, not especially light, got a pretty high TNF. It was an 80 degree AA blank. I believe that the faster the action the higher the probability for a high TNF.

I am talking trends and my personal conclusions and not publishing specific data because I don't want to risk any legal problems. I suggest if others want to get involved in TNF they email me for instructions. They can come to their own conclusions.

There is one brand of blanks, premium high priced blanks, that have the highest TNF's of the blanks I've tested. Period. They also feel great and have become my favorites Do they feel great because they are expensive and have high TNF's? The "halo effect?" I don't have the capability to rigorously sort it all out. But having said that, I may have more objective data than probably anyone else has that relates to dynamic performance of blanks. There has been a claim about having better data, but those data have never been shared.

I should state that another builder has developed an optical method of determining TNF and we have correlated our findings on a set of test blanks with two builders using TNF and him using his method. His and my methods correlate well and come to the same conclusions.

Ernie, I agree with ". . . ain't nothin' happening," but I also argue that the chances of having a high performing angler are higher with high quality rods than they are with low quality rods.

It's moot because the whole industry seems to be out of 9' 5wts.

I didn't think we had to bring up the obvious about an anglers ability . Of course you need an angler that is capable of squeezing all the performance out of the blanks that are capable of performing at the very highest level .

Unfortunately there are a ton of anglers out there that found out after spending substantial amounts of money that the most important factor of all is the anglers ability . People need to be honest with themselves here because if they aren't the end result will be disappointment .

chris c nash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't think we had to bring up the obvious
> about an anglers ability . Of course you need an
> angler that is capable of squeezing all the
> performance out of the blanks that are capable of
> performing at the very highest level .
>
> Unfortunately there are a ton of anglers out there
> that found out after spending substantial amounts
> of money that the most important factor of all is
> the anglers ability . People need to be honest
> with themselves here because if they aren't the
> end result will be disappointment .

I'm well aware of my ability and already discussed this point. When talking to the folks a NFC, they wanted to sell me the fastest blank. I asked about the power of the blank. He asked me what I meant by that.

Wasn't referring to you Jon , I can tell you know exactly what you want and understand what your ability level is. I was speaking strictly in general terms as I have come across countless people over the years that wonder why their high performance setup isn't producing the performance that they had expected and what other people with the same equipment are achieving .

"I didn't think we had to bring up the obvious about an angler's ability".

"Unfortunately there are a ton of anglers out there that found out after spending substantial amounts of money that the most important factor of all is the anglers ability . People need to be honest with themselves here because if they aren't the end result will be disappointment."

So it's not so obvious?

Ha ha ha ha ha Got me there Ernie . I think people who are regulars on Rodbuilding.org tend to know that their ability is a critical factor much more so than the general angling population .

I usually will build fly rods on NFC blanks but I have built a few on MHX and a few more on Sage and TFO. It seems I only buy the MHX blanks when they are on sale. If I were to compare them to another blank I would say they are a lot like Rainshadow blanks to point that they appear to come from the same factory. Maybe I'm wrong. The MHX blanks I have bought for "dirt cheap" on sale have really surprised me and are actually have made some of the best casting fly rods. The one great improvement I have seen since about 2000, is the fact that the manufactures and designer of blanks are not trying to recreate bamboo fly rod actions in carbon and fiberglass like they were in the 90s. It is a new age and for the most part, even the cheapest new blanks, are better than what we were building two decades ago.

Rod blank manufacturers are fiercely competitive but if I had to give one blank manufacturer the edge at this point in time I would give it to NFC for their C602 material .