I have searched the archives here but had no luck in finding out why using a " Perma Gloss Container" would extend the shelf life of U40 urethane . If exposure to air / moisture is the cause of Perma Gloss going bad in the bottle , it seems that increasing the surface area exposed by placing it in the metal can would only worsen the problem . I assume the container must work or U40 wouldn't claim it makes Perma Gloss good " to the last drop" ..... I just don't understand how . If someone could explain this , I would appreciate it .
Thanks.
Ron

The can works. It'll keep the stuff thin and liquid for up to a year. It's moisture that cures it, not necessarily air by itself. If you package the stuff in a dry room, particularly if you have the AC on, you're getting mostly drier air in the container at the outset.

I did have one can that eventually saw the product skin over on top, which then protected the underlying PG from further exposure. I think I got 6 months out of that can.

...........

I put my Permagloss bottle in an air tight jar containing a desiccant (silica gel), and keep it in the refrigerator. It will keep for over a year without any problems. When I use it, I pour out what I need into a small container. I never use it directly from the bottle. Refrigerator air contains very little moisture and the desiccant will remove any moisture in the jar.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2023 12:45PM by Norman Miller.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> The can works. It'll keep the stuff thin and
> liquid for up to a year. It's moisture that cures
> it, not necessarily air by itself. If you package
> the stuff in a dry room, particularly if you have
> the AC on, you're getting mostly drier air in the
> container at the outset.
>
> I did have one can that eventually saw the product
> skin over on top, which then protected the
> underlying PG from further exposure. I think I got
> 6 months out of that can.

Thank you . I have no doubt that you're right about the can working and that moisture is the culprit . What I can't understand is how , with an increased volume of trapped air (moisture) in the container and an increased surface area , the can works when the bottle fails ?? The only difference I can see is that the bottle has a plastic lid where the can has a metal lid . I can't imagine that difference is the only thing that makes one work and the other not ?? Again , I trust that you're right but don't understand why .
Thanks again .
Ron

You're never really opening the can once you seal it. The exit point is at the screw eye on the bottom edge of the can. The lid never comes off again.

...........

Norman's method works for me, a lot longer than a year. I mistakenly double ordered a few years ago and am still able to use the second bottle today. Are not the current factory containers less susceptible to the problem than the older ones were?

The bottles that have shipped in the past half dozen years have a foil liner that helps. They also ship with a second cap so you can swap out as needed.

I have no idea just how long PG in the can will last if you don't use it up before it dries up. I rarely get more than a year because the can is empty by then, so I know it'll last at least that long. Ralph said it would last 10 years in the can, but if you don't use 4 ounces in 10 years I'm not sure you wouldn't be better off just buying the 1-ounce bottles.

...........

I don't put my bottle in anything.I just store it in my refrigerator. I actually have the bottle turned upside down in a PVC pipe end cap. The only reason it's in the pipe end cap is to ensure that it stays upside down. I bought my house 5 years ago, and the bottle I currently have came with me from my old house. I used it last year and it's fine and dandy.

I have a feeling that it will still be usable when my time to leave this Earth comes along.

If no moisture is introduced, it will last a long time. So, cap it tightly and keep it in a low humidity environment. My method may be a little extreme, but there are no surprises when I need to use it. I go through about 4 oz a year. In addition to using it as a clear coat, I now coat my hand written inscriptions with Permagloss rather than epoxy. It is crystal clear and will never yellow. Just make sure you use the right ink.
Norm

Norman Miller Wrote:
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\ Just make sure you use the right
> ink.
> Norm



Learned that one the hard way.

Thanks to all for helping me understand this . I didn't see any instructions for use of the can on the web site but using the screw eye makes sense . And , no , Norm your method doesn't sound at all extreme . Thanks again .
Ron

I tried the can method once and it works, but getting the Permagloss out was a pain. It also slowly leaked from the screw eye until that would harden each time. I am sure I did something wrong. It did stay liquid in the can though.

I read somewhere (on here I believe) that the smaller bottles of Permagloss can be fitted with the metal lids from Testor’s model paint. I just use a self tapping screw in that lid and drip enough into a cup (without completely removing the screw) for the project and then screw the lid back on. Same concept as the can. I store it upside down as well. Keeps for over a year. It has failed before, but I try to keep a couple smaller bottles of the Permagloss around anyway.

Ronald Atchley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have searched the archives here but had no luck
> in finding out why using a " Perma Gloss
> Container" would extend the shelf life of U40
> urethane . If exposure to air / moisture is the
> cause of Perma Gloss going bad in the bottle , it
> seems that increasing the surface area exposed by
> placing it in the metal can would only worsen the
> problem . I assume the container must work or U40
> wouldn't claim it makes Perma Gloss good " to the
> last drop" ..... I just don't understand how . If
> someone could explain this , I would appreciate it
> .
> Thanks.
> Ron

What everybody is failing to see is that after the initial opening and use of the very small can with a screw hole in the side near the bottom, THERE IS NO MORE INTRODUCTION OF AIR, THUS NO MOISTURE, TO THE CAN BECAUSE IT IS vapor pressure that is pushing the liquid out of the screw hole. Second, I also drilled a hole in the cap of the bottle to put that screw in it so I don't need the very small can. After each use of the liquid from the bottle, I replace the screw and put back in a little compartment in my refrigerator door. Been using this same bottle for a little bit of Permagloss for 4 or 5 years at least and still dispensing.

I had a bottle that picked up moisture and was hard as a rock, so I re-ordered and got the can dispenser too. Couldn't get the screw hole to stop leaking and lost almost 2 ounces of Perma Gloss. Called U-40 and told them what was going on. The guy I talked to said he was going to try the can and get back to me. He had the same issues I did and made it right with me. I ended up using a bigger screw and a small washer, put the can in a Snap Ware container with a couple of large dessicant packs and I keep it in the refrigerator. Working fine now. I was really impressed with the customer service. Good people to deal with.

Ronald,

All the above is excellent feedback. It's true that the technique of using the can eliminates air exposure. A vacuum is created as Perma Gloss is dispensed.

Please note that as of several years ago we, at Trondak/U-40, began using a better cap for packaging Perma Gloss and providing an additional backup cap with each bottle. The old caps had a poly-cone liner. Unfortunately it would ever so gradually allow air in. The new cap is foil-lined and seals out moisture more effectively. If the liner tears or gets gummed-up the extra cap comes in handy.

i don't think that is correct that a vacuum is created, because the vapor pressure is pushing out the liquid.

I've never used Permagloss and sounds like a lot of fans here. Pls explain why you like it so much? Thanks.

Hard as a rock. Strong. Clear. Never, ever yellows. Flexible. Great for wraps or blanks. But it does not look like epoxy and requires multiple coats to build any depth.

.................

A trick I learned from a old car painter (family member. He took masking tape and sealed the sealing ring after getting lid down tight. He swore it worked. Of course i don't do that because my feeble old mind.

just what I remember from that exchange dealing with him.