I want to make a 9' 6" 11 wt. fly rod, for Musky fishing. I ran out of patience trying to source that exact blank, so; I've ordered a 9' 11wt. blank, from Rod Geeks, with the idea of extending the butt. I'll be adding a 3 1/2" fighting butt, and don't want to "lose" any of the blank. I realize that lengthening the butt will make the rod faster. Will this make the rod less able to absorb viscious hits? Any advice?
Thanks

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

I don't think so, though you most be a stouter person than I ever was, multiple days with my G Loomis 9 ft. 9 in. 8 weight would literally blow out my shoulder for weeks.

I'm only going to be using it for a few days, on a trip to the Peshtigo Flowage, in Northern Wisconsin. I figure my shoulder will get a work out. I also have a 9' 9 wt. Pike Rod that I built 14 years ago, with the help of this forum. One rod is a backup for the other, practically speaking. I've got plenty of wide open green space grass--time to get into casting shape!!!

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

I think you'll be okay on the "hits" if you keep your drag set properly. The trick will be allowing the line to slip out from under your grip hand and go to the reel if you get a hit while stripping line.

..................

Use an REC reel Seat and removable fighting butt hardware. The blank will end at 0.5" from the rear end of the seat.
Use the 1: threaded extensions to make the fighting butt as long as you want.
Herb

The longer you make a rod, the more leverage you give to the fish! You are the fulcrum, they are at the end of the lever1 There is a reason Tuna rods are short.

A longer fighting butt doesn't change anything if the butt lies behind what in effect is the fulcrum. You can put a 2 foot long fighting butt on the rod and it won't change the effective lever, casting length, etc., It's only going to affect rod balance.

...............

George wants to have more of the blank in play - a fair want.
Herb

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> A longer fighting butt doesn't change anything if
> the butt lies behind what in effect is the
> fulcrum. You can put a 2 foot long fighting butt
> on the rod and it won't change the effective
> lever, casting length, etc., It's only going to
> affect rod balance.
>
> ...............

If you add a 2' butt to the rod and still hold the rod from the same distance from the butt, you gave advantage to the fish and would have to pull/lift harder to keep moment arms equal.

In the scenario you give, the anger would be moving his hand off of the grip and back towards the butt of the rod. My point is that if you keep your hand on the grip or your normal point of effort any additional length you put on the back of the rod changes nothing other than balance.

………….,

Kerry Hansen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Kirkman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A longer fighting butt doesn't change anything
> if
> > the butt lies behind what in effect is the
> > fulcrum. You can put a 2 foot long fighting
> butt
> > on the rod and it won't change the effective
> > lever, casting length, etc., It's only going to
> > affect rod balance.
> >
> > ...............
>
> If you add a 2' butt to the rod and still hold the
> rod from the same distance from the butt, you gave
> advantage to the fish and would have to pull/lift
> harder to keep moment arms equal.


Adding a fighting butt of any length to the rear of the rod butt doesn't change the grip location. He'll be holding the rod in the same place as before. The distance from his grip hand (point of effort) to the tip of the rod will remain unchanged.

.............

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kerry Hansen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom Kirkman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A longer fighting butt doesn't change
> anything
> > if
> > > the butt lies behind what in effect is the
> > > fulcrum. You can put a 2 foot long fighting
> > butt
> > > on the rod and it won't change the effective
> > > lever, casting length, etc., It's only going
> to
> > > affect rod balance.
> > >
> > > ...............
> >
> > If you add a 2' butt to the rod and still hold
> the
> > rod from the same distance from the butt, you
> gave
> > advantage to the fish and would have to
> pull/lift
> > harder to keep moment arms equal.
>
>
> Adding a fighting butt of any length to the rear
> of the rod butt doesn't change the grip location.
> He'll be holding the rod in the same place as
> before. The distance from his grip hand (point of
> effort) to the tip of the rod will remain
> unchanged.
>
> .............Not if he uses the REC fighting butt hardware. The blank's butt would end 0.5" from the end of the seat.
Herb

The grip to tip length stays the same no matter how long a fighting butt you add.

……….

George Forster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want to make a 9' 6" 11 wt. fly rod, for Musky
> fishing. I ran out of patience trying to source
> that exact blank, so; I've ordered a 9' 11wt.
> blank, from Rod Geeks, with the idea of extending
> the butt. I'll be adding a 3 1/2" fighting butt,
> and don't want to "lose" any of the blank. I
> realize that lengthening the butt will make the
> rod faster. Will this make the rod less able to
> absorb viscious hits? Any advice?
> Thanks


You'll be holding the rod in the same place regardless of your fighting butt. So nothing changes regarding the casting or presentation/retrieving end of things. The only time you will have any difference is when fighting the fish and then only if you put the butt into your gut or waist and use it as the fulcrum.

...........

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The grip to tip length stays the same no matter
> how long a fighting butt you add.
>
> ……….


Not true.
When using the REC FB hardware the seat is moved aft 0.5" plus length of what the fighting butt was going to be. Thus the grip would follow the seat movement aft
i.e. If the builder was planing on a 3" FB - the seat and grip would be moved aft 3.5" from the position it would be if the butt extended aft of the reel seat by 3" to form the FB.
Herb

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kerry Hansen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom Kirkman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A longer fighting butt doesn't change
> anything
> > if
> > > the butt lies behind what in effect is the
> > > fulcrum. You can put a 2 foot long fighting
> > butt
> > > on the rod and it won't change the effective
> > > lever, casting length, etc., It's only going
> to
> > > affect rod balance.
> > >
> > > ...............
> >
> > If you add a 2' butt to the rod and still hold
> the
> > rod from the same distance from the butt, you
> gave
> > advantage to the fish and would have to
> pull/lift
> > harder to keep moment arms equal.
>
>
> Adding a fighting butt of any length to the rear
> of the rod butt doesn't change the grip location.
> He'll be holding the rod in the same place as
> before. The distance from his grip hand (point of
> effort) to the tip of the rod will remain
> unchanged.
>
> .............

TOM,First, I believe you said adding 2' to the Butt. Second if you did add 2' I really don't think you would still hold the rod at the same place, you would have to move your hand hold rearward 2' to have the same grip location from the body. Finally, I still remember quite well my STATICS engineering course I took in 1962 and You as a ME should see that. The Butt of the rod is the pivot point. So if you added 2' to a rod that is 10', if a fish pulls down with 10 lbs the force down will change from 100 ft lbs to 120 ft lbs and to ballance that out the fisherman with his hands holding the rod the same distance from the butt lets say 2' gives you 100/2= 50 lbs you would be exerting that will increase when adding 2' to 120/2 = 60 lbs force which you will now have to lift.

Kerry,

Yes, I've done several articles on lever mechanics in the magazine. They do not apply in this instance however.

Perhaps you're not familiar with fly rods and fighting butts. You will still hold the rod at the same point - the grip determines that, not the fighting butt length. No matter how long the fighting butt is, the grip you hold to cast and fight the fish with will be in the same location. The distance from your grip to the tip of the rod will remain the same. A fighting butt is simply a plug-in onto the rear of the reel seat. No matter how long the fighting butt is, the reel seat and grip remain in the same place.

.................

I add fighting butts to fly rods most often to actually make it easier for the fisherman to lift and pull against the fish. I won't get the terms right but when fighting a fish the fighting butt means your fish fighting hand will be closer to the fish to that portion of the lever will then be shorter. I cannot see how a fighting butt is going to given any advantage to the fish.

You are mostly correct. If you read my earlier post, I mentioned that simply adding a fighting butt to the rear of a reel seat is not going to change the casting or presentation aspects of the rod. The reel set and grip will remain exactly the same distance from the tip as they did before you added the fighting butt. However, the instant you put the butt of the rod in your gut, you have just changed the lever to a 3rd class lever and the fulcrum is now the butt of the rod. A fighting butt added there means the point of effort (your grip) is now further from the fulcrum and therefore lessons the amount of effort required to lift the load (fish). The more distance you have between the fulcrum and the point of effort the easier will be to lift the load (fight the fish).

Bob would be correct if you are simply moving everything back including the point of effort, but a fighting butt doesn't do that.

Any time you add length to a rod and want to know what effect it will have on casting, fish fighting, etc., consider whether you are adding the additional length ahead of, or behind, the point of effort and if that additional length is just hanging in the air, as it would be for casting, or placed into your gut, fighting belt, etc.for fighting the fish.

............

Where's the missing 2 1/2 inches? In his original post he says he is going from 9ft to 9ft 6inches. 3 1/2 inch butt does not add 6 inches the rod.. If the grip and reel seat are moved towards the butt, leverage is added for the fish.