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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: March 17, 2023 05:04PM

Thanks, David, sorry I got confused. They sound like very similar blanks. Interesting comments on power in light of my recent suggestion that we correlate subjective descriptors with CCS numbers. Then got trashed for suggesting it. If we had that correlation we might avoid "Fast actions" that measure 29 AA.
SJ 541-1 64 29.1 AA 5.84 ERN 1 piece 1.22 oz. Ultra light Fast

I think a number of us have the same thoughts on the appropriate power for a ned rod.

Your comments on the RX10 line are similar to mine. Very nice blanks. I have used the "medium" power (466 grams) 7 foot 2 spin version for neds, and it works. A lot more powerful than the DS 6100, maybe not the ideal ned rod, but it works. Faster action rods can go down in lure weight quite a ways and still cast fairly well due to their softer tips.

This is what I proposed, received no suggestions to alter. Their may be improvements appropriate. David , I note your comment about a 300 gram rod being "Light" power.
CCS to relative terms
Michael Danek:
Light: 201-300 grams
Medium-Light: 301-425 grams
Medium: 426-625 grams
Medium Heavy: 626-925
Heavy: greater than 926

Slow action: less than 50 degrees
Moderate-slow 51-55 degrees
Moderate: 56-60
Moderate-fast: 61-67
Fast: 68-76
Extra fast above 77 I expect to get "corrected" again. :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2023 05:09PM by Michael Danek.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: March 17, 2023 06:33PM

The NFC Xray SJ703 would be right in the ned rig wheelhouse too. If I ever get mine built I'll let ya know lol. It's another light tipped fast action with good flex into the mid section. 340ish IP and low 70s AA.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: March 17, 2023 06:39PM

Mick.
That 29 degree AA has to be a misprint. Someone else brought that up recently about a couple of those short NFC SJ blanks.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Dean Veltman (---.reverse-dns)
Date: March 17, 2023 06:52PM

I like the St. Croix 70MLF rods for Neds. They look to be around 350 grams power.

I also have a X-ray DS721. If I am throwing jig heads lighter than 1/16th oz, that may get the nod. Otherwise, 1/16th oz and heavier is the 70MLF.

If you are exclusively using the 1/20th, I am not sure offhand which is better. I need winter to break to check. Probably fine either way. But, that is right were I start dividing those rods. I have some 1/32nd oz heads I throw on the DS721.

The St. Croix looks to be similar to the Rainshadow 72mlf in terms of power.

I do not like going any heavier than the MLF for Ned rigs personally.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Derick Jahnke (---)
Date: March 17, 2023 08:06PM

It's all open water fishing, I like the idea of the DS rods, but they might be too light. St Croix doesn't sell blanks so they are out.Id mostly be using the 1/16th ounce worm nose jighead (Do It molds) with a size 1 or 2 hook with the Ned baits....total weight of 5.6 grams. I'm still eyeing that Bushido SJ 4-8, just can't fund ccs data for it. I have an Eternity RX10 medium blank ( don't have the model number off the top of my head), it's way too powerful for what I want....though it's feather light. Does NFC have a 2 power SJ?

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Dean Veltman (172.93.207.---)
Date: March 17, 2023 08:25PM

I have the NFC SJ762 HM. It is lighter than a St. Croix 70MLF. For the lighter Ned rigs, it would be fine. It is more of a light power rod. Same goes for the bushido 4-8# spinning rod. I have the blank but does not feel like what I was looking for. My favorite light power blank I have found is the Elliott rod blanks 73lf. Similar to the NFC 762 in power but the Elliot blank has slightly more power when the blank “locks up.”

For St. Croix, the GodGeeks carbon4 70MLF would be a good option. The Bass3 series may be up in the air since it might be similar to the Victory Series and I have heard they run lighter in power than the rest of the St. Croix series of rods, but I have not been able to handle and confirm that.

The X-ray P703 feels right (only have blank right now). The X-ray SJ732 would work but not as quite as light of a tip compared to the St. Croix in my opinion.

I have a couple Batson Enternity RX10 medium X-fast blanks, but they feel lighter than my 70MLF rods. I was disappointed since I was hoping for a step up in power over the SC 70MLF rods.

I do have the NFC SJ803 HM that I will cut down to probably 7-6, but have not formed a strong opinion of that one yet. My best guess is that it is a little more powerful than the 70MLF St. Croixs. Probably a great all-round finesse but might be a little more powerful than you want. Again, this one is just a guess. It seems fairly close to the Daiwa 76mml rod that is called “The One”. I need to get a fixture to allow me to deflect and compare two blanks side by side.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Derick Jahnke (---)
Date: March 17, 2023 08:40PM

That p703 looks close to what I want..based off the bend..

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Dean Veltman (---.reverse-dns)
Date: March 17, 2023 10:15PM

I think that is a good option.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: March 17, 2023 11:34PM

Derick Jahnke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Does NFC have a
> 2 power SJ?

Just a heads up, in the xray atleast, the 3 power SJ703 is less powerful than the 2 power SJ732. Ignore the line lure rating on that 703, it's wrong, it's a 1/16-5/16 or 1/8-3/8 oz blank and going by ccs numbers, it's close to some manufacturers 1 power SJ....i.e. MHX SJ781

The 66MLF and 70MLF st croixs do alot of things well and are great blanks...ya can get em from rodgeeks and the SCV are still made in USA

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: March 18, 2023 12:32AM

Matt Ruggie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Derick Jahnke Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> The 66MLF and 70MLF st croixs do alot of things
> well and are great blanks...ya can get em from
> rodgeeks and the SCV are still made in USA

I’ve been building spinning and casting rods on this series for nearly thirty years. I have them configured for trout, bass, BFS, and panfish. I have them in SCII through SCV. They are black, brown, green, blue, and raw in their colors. The 66-76 St. Croix blanks, running from L to M power, have to be about the most refined and reliable product line in the history of fishing. I’ve enjoyed them from Alaska to the Bahamas in about every type of fishery. If someone is choosing between the RX10, XRay, and SCV options, there is no wrong choice.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: March 18, 2023 08:40AM

Kendall. Couldn't agree more.

" have to be about the most refined and reliable in the history of fishing"

That's been my experience too. Their premier line was where I got my feet wet with better rods and I just kept moving up from there. When I started building for myself, it was only natural to start with their products. Between factory and customs, I've probably used more st croixs then all other brands combined.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: March 18, 2023 12:08PM

Yes, I followed that same progression from Premier to SCV Legend in building with a couple of their fly rods thrown in as well. I build with more brands than I used to for saltwater and some technique specific purposes. The total of these brands will never match St. Croix builds as I’m still building about half the time on their blanks. I doubt anyone has taken St. Croix rods to as many interesting places as my federal fisheries career and angling interests allowed. If Gary hadn’t sold G Loomis, I would certainly have a more even brand split. The same would true to a lesser extent if Lamiglas hadn’t fallen off their zenith a couple of decades ago. While others have come, gone, and faltered, the Park Falls company has kept this part of their line reliably moving forward.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Dean Veltman (---.reverse-dns)
Date: March 18, 2023 09:27PM

If it wasn’t for St. Croix’s business model change with blanks, they would still be the main rod blank brand I used, but I know longer get a discount on them since they only sell direct through RodGeeks. So, the NFC’s are more cost effective for me. But, I still bought a few SCV from RodGeeks of my favorite blanks.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Ross Montgomery (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: March 19, 2023 12:25AM

I have three blanks that I all think make pretty good Ned rig blanks for me. The NFC SJ 732, the SJ 703 and the DS721. Don’t be fooled by the SJ 703 specs, it fishes way lighter than they would indicate. But out of all 3 , I definitely prefer it SJ 732, nice light tip for throwing light neds but is forgiving when playing fish on those small hooks and light line.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: March 19, 2023 05:28AM

Ross Montgomery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have three blanks that I all think make pretty
> good Ned rig blanks for me. The NFC SJ 732, the SJ
> 703 and the DS721. Don’t be fooled by the SJ 703
> specs, it fishes way lighter than they would
> indicate. But out of all 3 , I definitely prefer
> it SJ 732, nice light tip for throwing light neds
> but is forgiving when playing fish on those small
> hooks and light line.

I think they used the" pull ratings out of a hat method" with the SJ703. maybe just a typo where the 1/4-3/4 was meant to be 1/8-3/8 but the line rating of 8-14 doesn't fit its power either. I great blank tho! May grab atleast one more.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Derick Jahnke (---)
Date: March 19, 2023 09:20AM

Does the SJ703 have a lighter tip than the MB733?

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 19, 2023 09:32AM

Can anybody specifically compare the X-ray DS721 and the HM DS761 for Ned's and other finesse presentations?

Edit to add that it will pretty much always be 10-15# braid to a leader

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2023 09:39AM by El Bolinger.

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: March 19, 2023 10:09AM

Derick Jahnke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the SJ703 have a lighter tip than the MB733?

I'd assume so but take that with a grain of salt, never handled the MB733. SJ703 has a light fast action tip. The 733 ccs shows its 100 grams more powerful. Check the rodhouse comparator, most if not all the xray blanks are listed and it shows the deflection under different weights

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: March 19, 2023 10:13AM

Kendall, I'm still smokin some "hopium", waiting for lamiglas to release the xmg50 2.0 updated for alittle more durability!! Lol

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Re: Ned rod again...
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: March 19, 2023 03:10PM

Matt Ruggie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kendall, I'm still smokin some "hopium", waiting
> for lamiglas to release the xmg50 2.0 updated for
> alittle more durability!! Lol

That is funny. What surprised me about that incident was that it was a decade or maybe less after G Loomis and Sage had a few bad months of breakage when they introduced blanks of a similar modulus. They quickly had to adjust resins and production to get durability back. How did those lessons get lost so soon in the same basic community?

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