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Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Rob Carey (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 10:59AM

Hello,

I am new to the hobby and have done 6 rods. I wanted to get into more decorative wraps but have trouble just keeping my standard wraps clean.

I've given up with size A. How do you all make it look so easy?

I have the CRB wrapper but wonder if tention is too tight. I will break thread pulling through sometimes. On video folks just pull it so easy.

I use size D and it is easier. But still get gaps and have issues keeping the ends straight.

I see folks using simple setups doing amazing work. Even a guy from Japan that wraps by hand. Do they look better in photo than in person? Perhaps I'm being to harsh, but my builder friend uses A and he's look perfect.

I want to love this hobby but the wrapping is testing my patients as I thought I would improve faster.

Thank you all!

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.62.---)
Date: March 13, 2023 11:10AM

If you are breaking A thread it's too tight. It should be snug, but it should allow you to slightly move the guide when you are through wrapping to properly adjust the alignment. I suggest you keep practicing with A. Lower the tension and give it a another try.

I just don't have the patience for decorative wraps after trying just one. Get comfortable with simple wraps, then move into some thread inlays and other simple thread techniques that can add interest and beauty beyond just a plain wrap. Then you may want to go on to decorative wraps.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 11:19AM

If your wrapper has the tension rod, make sure it’s parallel with the table. If it’s pointing too far up (toward the ceiling), you don’t have enough tension. If it’s pointing too far down, you likely have too much tension. Other than that, take your time, become best friends with the burnishing tool and just practice. Finally, there’s no shame in taking a wrap off and starting over if it’s not to your liking. Pain in the rear? Sure, but you’ll be happier in the long run when you get it to your liking. Also, I find the pull through to be easier if I yank it with a no fear attitude. Trying to be gentle just makes it harder, IMO.

I don’t do the “fancy” wraps as I just build for myself so I can’t help you with that.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (94.140.11.---)
Date: March 13, 2023 11:24AM

Rob,
What Michael said.
Also, you seem to be having an issue with packing your thrad. Maybe te high tension is the reason.
You should be packing frequently to avoid gaps.
What are you using as a packing tool?

You should be straightening your warps at tye get-go so finished wrap is straight.
It might help if you used a magnifying head set - I.E. [doneganoptical.com]

Herb

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: March 13, 2023 11:40AM

It all about experience, the more you do it the easier it becomes. From my experiences, high thread tension causes more problems than it solves. Reduce your thread tension to a point where it is easy to spin your blank while hand wrapping. A more moderate thread tension will allow for better packing, and better looking wraps. A slight thread angle going against the wrap edge allows for the thread wraps to lay very closely next to each other. If you get a small gap pack it right away with your finger nail. Once you get the feel for wrapping, you will be pleasantly surprised about how easy it is and how fast you can do it. I only wrap by hand.
Norm

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: March 13, 2023 12:30PM

Ease up on your tension just a little bit. Relax your hand and fingers. You might find it helps if you lie the side of your hand on the rod blank so it will not spin backwards if you let go of the rod with your fingers. If you have a wrapping machine and it is in the chuck, the back pressure of the motor will do that for you. You have to relax.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Bob Foster (205.234.62.---)
Date: March 13, 2023 01:03PM

This may not be the case but I ran into a spool of thread a few weeks back (fishhawk i think?) in size a that broke immediately when I tried to use it alongside the fuji size a. Not sure if that was normal or what but I turfed it straight away. I tried it a few times thinking it may have been the first couple of feet on the spool but a soon as I applied any tension it broke.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Rob Carey (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 01:19PM

Thank you!

My breaks were on the pull through. Using other D thread. I can do it with braided line but still have to give it a good tug.

Seems like when I watch videos they pull through with less force.

What is a good time to shoot for to wrap a 7' rod with 9-10 guides?

I feel like it should only take and 90 minutes, but I can spend all night and have many redo wraps.

Lastly, I'm having tag end issues. I want zero fuzzy ends so I can do one coat of finish...is that wrong?

I have tried pull and razor, and pre cut and pull through. I get fuzzy ends either way. If I do the pre cut, do I need to add the pull loop sooner and have more wraps over the tag to hide it?

So frustrating as I am a meticulous person and thought it would come easy.

I should also note, I have a lot of NFC Delta and their texture is not helping.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Bob Foster (205.234.62.---)
Date: March 13, 2023 01:44PM

One thing you might try that I have been doing for awhile is to pull on only one leg of the pull thru loop. I found that when I pulled both legs the loop tended to bunch up just as it pulled tight against the wraps. I find pulling one leg the bunching does not occur and I mostly can keep pulling the one leg to complete the pull thru. I think the one leg moving across the thread as it pulls the tag thru eases the effort required as both the loop and the tag are sliding along one another as opposed to the tag having to slide over a stationary loop if that makes sense.

It takes me way too long to wrap a rod but I think I do simple wraps on fly guides at a rate of about 20 - 30 minutes per guide or so. This would be with a simple trim band. If it were a simple wrap with no other colors it would be less of course, perhaps by a third or so?

I gave up on one coat wonders as well as worrying about stick ups to a large degree. Like I still try to trim the tags and have them pull under the wraps but if they don't I burn them back and trim the stickout after the first coat. Adding the pull loop sooner will help the tag disappear under the wraps but I still prefer to have the tag long enough to snug up the wrap before trimming the it. Many ways to skin a cat. What I have had good success with is doing my pull thru, which leaves a "v" in the wrap where the tension of pulling the tag under creates lateral movement of that section of wrap, double check the wrap is still tight, trim the tag so it tends to want to pull under the wrap after cut, then push the belly out of the "v" which pulls the end of the tag under the wrap. This works most of the time but not always.

The ridges on those blanks are challenging, especially with smaller thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 01:55PM by Bob Foster.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: March 13, 2023 02:04PM

I never pull the tag end of the thread completely through the wrap. I insert the tie off loop earlier than most rod builders do. After inserting the tag end into the tie off loop, I pull the loop so it is tight against the wrap, and the tag end will just about stand up. I then cut the tag end with a pair of fine tipped scissors so it is flush against the wrap. When I pull the tie off loop out the tag end is hidden under the wrap with no nub or fuzzies to worry about. It also saves a lot of time, because you don’t have to go back and trim the tag, which is time consuming and a pain to do.
Norm

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Bob Foster (205.234.62.---)
Date: March 13, 2023 02:07PM

Norman, I should revisit the method you describe actually. I always worry about not being able to snug the wrap but one thing that is very disheartening is accidently cutting the wrap instead of just the tag.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Rob Carey (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 02:42PM

Iay try Norm's advice and insert sooner for the cut and pull method.

I did a rod where I left the tags on all the guides so I could straighten them. I had some come unwrapped when having to move a guide...again, maybe I had them too tight because it was tough to move them.

I have 7 rods with handles glued. This was going to be relaxing I told myself. I do more cursing than golf haha.

But I caught two on a 664 delta I built and it was very gratifying.

Thanks again!

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.62.---)
Date: March 13, 2023 05:03PM

Something to remember, most of us do leave a fuzzy now and then, or a stickup off the wrap. Fuzziies usually can be fixed by holding a butane lighter flame next to, not under the fuzzy. Usually it will burn off. For stickups, since I use lite viscosity wrap epoxy, I usually just epoxy over them, then after the first coat has cured, cut them off with a sharp Exacto blade or razor blade. Then another thin coat and no problem.

Regarding wrapping speed, I am slow. I am what many would call a half fast wrapper. Think about it. But I make some very nice rods.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Bruce Tomaselli (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 05:37PM

You'll be fine with experience. It's tough to do, but try to stay patient, and experience will solve the problem. Check this site and go to Youtube. You can pick up things to straighten the curve. We didn't have all of these resources when I began building. Patience will help and experience will see you through.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: March 13, 2023 05:38PM

Here are a few pictures to illustrate what I’m talking about

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Norm

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: March 13, 2023 06:14PM

Hi Norman.

I've been doing it the same way as you for about 40 years, before that I just tied a not in it and varnished it.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 06:51PM

I like that technique Norm. I’m going to have to give that a whirl. Previously, I’ve been positioning the loop to where it’s on the opposite of the blank from the guide. That way any little imperfection(s) is pretty much out of sight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 07:20PM by Daryl Ferguson.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: March 13, 2023 06:57PM

Bob,
I’ve been doing it this way for about 50 yrs or so. It’s easy, saves a lot of time and no nubs or fuzzies to worry about. I’m sort of surprised that not everyone does it this way.
Norm

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: March 13, 2023 07:38PM

Hello Norman.

50 years ago I was 15 and making fishing "rods" from tree limbs and hand bent wire guides, my father was a Marine (no money-moved a lot) so I had to make-due with whatever I can find.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Wrapping Is Hard
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: March 13, 2023 08:44PM

I learned Norm's method, won't be going back.

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