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Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 12, 2023 11:12PM

Hey yall,

With the ability to build a spinning rod on a typical casting blank Why not build a spinning rod for times you're not target casting?

I'm thinking bass fishing, open water cranking, jerk bait, Spinnerbait outside of cover, basically anything that's less concerned with precision placement. Especially for anything with treble hooks where a spinning reel most often has better drag than casting.

I would imagine spinning set up would lend itself to much more versatility being able to handle wind better, handle a greater range of lure weights, significantly less hassle with casting flubs...

The biggest push for me to get into casting reels a handful of years ago was the rods are typically beefier and you can control the cast better. But now I can build on a casting blank and when not overly concerned with exact placement this would offer the best of both worlds...

Am I missing something?

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (---)
Date: March 12, 2023 11:23PM

The blank has nothing to do with it. A blank is a blank. It becomes a casting or spinning when you build it. Most bass fishing spinning setups are lighter because most folks use them for finesse applications. Heavier duty stuff is on casting setups because, generally speaking, casting reels are better suited due to being more robust. That said, you can build and fish either however you like. It really just boils down to what you're more comfortable with fishing.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 12, 2023 11:34PM

Couldn't pay me to fish spinnerbaits on a spinning reel or any lure that has alot of resistance. Well that's a lie, I'd take the money.... lol...... Cranks, jerks 99% of the time is on casting too, just more comfortable for the retrieve cadence, but if winds do get too nasty and I absolutely have to, I'll switch to spin with jerks and small cranks. You can be just as accurate with spinning too.

But at the end of the day, it's really gonna be your personal preference. I have a buddy that fishes everything on spinning, hates casting gear and is a very good smallmouth angler. He does have a shoulder issue tho which is why he abandoned casting gear initially.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 12, 2023 11:52PM

I'd agree and disagree haha.

I agree a blank is whatever you make it, I'm with you man, I've been known to ask others "is a trash barrel still a trash barrel if I don't put trash in it"?

But just about every manufacturer I've looked at has blanks designated as spinning or casting - that's what I was referring to. It's also very apparent with off the rack rods, you get a same brand/line MH F spinning rod and MH F casting and the casting rod will be more powerful 90% of the time - which is evident in out CCS data log.

I think what you're saying is an description of what is accepted as the status quo, which is exactly what I'm questioning. I know what you mean, but I think thats just what we're used to when bass fishing. Because spinning and casting reels can be used to catch 50 pound fish off the beach, but bass heads have this great divide of spinning rods (sissy sticks, fairy wands etc.) And casting rods. I think this is because of the reason I stated above, all the big manufacturers are using particular powers for what they call a casting MH or a spinning MH and it gives a perceptionof spinning being for lighter stuff. It has nothing to do with the reels because Penn has been making stellar big salt water fish spinning reels for decades. I've never heard a bass fisherman say they have a Penn spinning reel - but they could haha

What makes you say a casting reel is more robust? Some midrange casting reels only have 11# drag systems and some equal cost spinning reels can have >15# of drag. The only thing I could say is the drag might lock better on a casting reel, but I've never cranked the drag on a spinning reel, but I feel like it's almost canon that spinning drags are more consistent.

I think bait casters handle heavier line better in general by the nature of how it flows, but once you move to braid that difference is immediately mitigated.

So why cast 1/2 oz crank baits on casting vs spinning set up?

Edit just saw Matt
Why not use spinning reel for spinnerbait or others with resistance?

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2023 11:54PM by El Bolinger.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 12:11AM

I have a spinning reel with 17 pounds of drag, lol. None of my baitcasters have that much (I don't think they do anyway, lol). That's not what I meant, however, with my comment. I literally meant the construction. But again, you'll get no argument out of me as to whether or not you should or shouldn't fish one or the other. As I said, fish what you're comfortable fishing with. There is no right or wrong way. There's the, as you pointed out, the myth (or perhaps bias) that some anglers have that somehow spinning setups are somehow inferior. FWIW, I *generally* use my spinning rods for finesse fishing, but I do sometimes put my jerkbaits on one of my spinning rods. And, I know of at least one pro that fishes jerks AND cranks on spinning rods.

As far as the manufacturers, they label things for the customer's benefit and, as we all know, they all live in their own little bubble, meaning there's no consistency. I often use Abu Garcia and Dobyns as examples because they're about as far about from each other as they can get with the same labels. Pick up a medium heavy Garcia and then pick up a Dobyns. Garcia will feel like a board in comparison. How could that be? Well, we've already discussed that on this forum ad nauseum. They don't, are not going to, adapt a universal standard such as CCS, or any other measurement you wish to discuss. They all go about their business in their own bubble.

But, a blank is a blank. How they choose to label it doesn't change that fact, and what you choose to do with it is your own affair. My .02. Your mileage may vary. :)

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: March 13, 2023 01:22AM

I agree with you El, in some situations I have had spinning versions work better in windy conditions, one being throw Long A type lures into the wind, I have two standout examples in my collection. Another example is the fine spinning rods hotshot blanks make for various uses.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 13, 2023 07:37AM

El,
For me spinning reels feel overpowered and sloppy with lures that have alot of resistance. Baitcasters are basically winch and built to handle that resistance.

Again tho, most of it is personal preference, and like ya said and spencer agreed, sometimes right tool for the job, windy situations with lures that aren't the most aerodynamic to begin with lend itself to spinning.

And for the record I probably fish my spinning tackle more often then my casting gear during the course of the year. I can never understand the bass casting gear snobbery thing, it's ridiculous,

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: March 13, 2023 11:12AM

You can build a bait casting or spinning rod on any blank you like. You don’t have to build spinning rods on light sloppy rods. If you want a more powerful spinning rod, then build it on a more powerful blank. Conversely, if you want a less powerful casting rod, then build it on a less powerful blank. The choice is yours, not the manufacturer’s. Build on the blank you like for the reel of your choice. It’s one of the things that makes a custom rod a custom rod.

Norm

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: March 13, 2023 01:49PM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts y'all!

I'm gonna see what happens with a beefy spinning build, I've never reeled in a 1/2 oz spinnerbait or crank bait or worm on a spinning reel - but definitely seems worth a go considering the carefree castability. I hate having one of the few days I get to actually go fishing be a total bust because the wind is acting up.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 13, 2023 02:25PM

[www.rodbuilding.org]

In this thread leonard talks about and shares a video of basically what your talking about.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Josh Bryan (---.tpgi.com.au)
Date: March 14, 2023 01:02PM

El Bolinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts y'all!
>
> I'm gonna see what happens with a beefy spinning
> build, I've never reeled in a 1/2 oz spinnerbait
> or crank bait or worm on a spinning reel - but
> definitely seems worth a go considering the
> carefree castability. I hate having one of the few
> days I get to actually go fishing be a total bust
> because the wind is acting up.


With that sort of casting weight, a spin rod is a good choice

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: March 15, 2023 09:35PM

I move to baitcasting gear as soon as parameters allow. Wind can be one of those limiting parameters, though. I think the best reason to build your own rods is to optimize to your fishing conditions.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Mark Brassett (---)
Date: March 15, 2023 09:46PM

You can learn a ton about what gear to use for different lures by watching those live bass tourneys on TV. I don't think I've ever seen one of those pros toss a big spinner with a spinning rod.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: March 15, 2023 10:09PM

Mark Brassett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can learn a ton about what gear to use for
> different lures by watching those live bass
> tourneys on TV. I don't think I've ever seen one
> of those pros toss a big spinner with a spinning
> rod.

I wouldn’t do it, either. I find hitting the target a challenge with a spinnerbait in winds so strong that using a baitcaster becomes difficult. I’ve seen them work really well when strong winds are blowing into rip-rap. It’s not easy to curl a spinnerbait next to the rocks in those conditions without landing in them every so many casts. The spinning rod isn’t going to help that problem. El might have different scenarios where the egg beater will work better.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (---)
Date: March 15, 2023 10:22PM

Lure weight dictates spinning or casting more so than technique for me, generally speaking. I have small 1/4 oz spinner baits that I throw on a spinning rod, but I’d never throw a 3/8s or 1/2 oz on one. But, I know fellas (my brother for one), won’t touch a bait casting setup. As I said, whatever bakes your biscuits is what you should do.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: March 15, 2023 11:59PM

Daryl Ferguson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lure weight dictates spinning or casting more so
> than technique for me, generally speaking. I have
> small 1/4 oz spinner baits that I throw on a
> spinning rod, but I’d never throw a 3/8s or 1/2
> oz on one. But, I know fellas (my brother for
> one), won’t touch a bait casting setup. As I
> said, whatever bakes your biscuits is what you
> should do.

I’ve spent two weeks fishing with anti-baitcasting people without backlashing. During that time I landed more fish, a higher percentage of fish, and made longer casts. They were still no less negative towards baitcasters. It’s really the classic “risk versus reward” scenario.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2023 12:10AM by Kendall Cikanek.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: March 16, 2023 07:56AM

Matt has it dead on with talking about reeling in more water resistant baits, with spinning gear. He is also right about it being a personal preference thing. And if your personal preference is to work a lot harder retrieving baits with spinning gear, then .....

I know I am going to hear it from certain people when I talk about spinning gear is such a fashion, but there are undeniable advantages to casting gear when retrieving baits with even a modest amount of water resistance. As mentioned earlier, casting reels are winches, the line doesn't make a 90 degree turn before it goes back on the spool. It is that 90 degree turn involved in line going back on a spinning reel, that is responsible for the increase in reeling effort

That same 90 degree turn is also responsible for the increased maximum drag numbers of spinning reels over casting reels.I don't know if the work load increase of a spinning reel versus a casting reel is proportional to the difference in max drag numbers for each type of reel, but if it is, and to me it certainly feels like it is, then you can get an idea of how much more work it would be reeling in baits. Any bait. Spinning reels create more work load when retrieving baits versus casting reels. Period.

And yes I have read it before in past threads about how people reel in huge fish with spinning gear. I've watched them do it on TV many many times. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it's way easier with casting gear.

As far as spinning reels having smoother drags than casting reels goes. since a spinning reel gets some of it's drag force from the 90 degree turn of the line, it means that the drag mechanism doesn't need to be tightened as much, so once they start releasing line, they may be more smooth. but that hasn't been my experience. At least not with the drag tensions I use, and the spinning reels I use.

I get the casting into the wind thing. Especially with lighter baits, or with baits like Shad Raps, that are pretty notorious for casting poorly. But that's pretty much it. With proper reel set up and experience, casting into even a strong wind isn't that big of a deal. And if one wanted to, they could always go to a Shimano casting reel with their DC technology. I have a couple of friends with those reels and man, can they cast into the wind with those puppies.

Anyhow ..... I think before I built a spinning rod specifically for throwing cast and retrieve baits that have even moderate water resistance, I would try it with one of the spinning rods I have now, and concentrate on reeling effort, and see if you could deal with it.

I don't want it to sound as if I'm not a fan of spinning gear, because I like using it. It just takes the fun out of fishing those kind of baits. At least for me.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: March 16, 2023 09:07AM

I can’t remember ever having a meaningful drag smoothness issue on any kind of reel, post the childhood Zebco days. I grease the ones that are supposed to be greased with drag grease. I tend to buy reels designed for smoothness over the extreme pressures. I have a nearly 40 year old Senator getting a slight hitch. It’s probably time to put a few dollars into new washers. An old Chronarch from the 1990’s is still as buttery smooth as the Curado I bought last year. There are great drag systems available for any reel type, except for maybe children’s spincasters.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (---)
Date: March 16, 2023 10:55AM

I think a lot of older anglers equate the newer low profile reels with the old Ambassadors and such, and that jades their opinion. One thing I notice with folks new to baitcasters is they don’t understand the purpose of each of the two braking systems. Most get the spool tension somewhat right, but most don’t get the mag dial right. Also, a lot of newbies seem to think once the first the reel is setup, the knobs can never be adjusted again.

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Re: Open water- casting or spinning?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: March 16, 2023 12:38PM

Daryl,
Since the first ultralight casting reel with selector switch to engage that function is in my use rotation since the 80's, the Shimano Bantam100EX, I think you may be surprised just how much us 70 year old cadgers understand. You better be able to leap and prance like a gazelle if you want to keep that steelhead attached while he pools you through a 100 yard rapids to a lower pool with that dinky, low capacity reel. If you're fishing dinks I guess they would work just fine. Spinning reel, larger line capacity for these occasions, casts far with light gear, no need to be a gazelle, reliable as a hammer.

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