I am working on my 3rd and 4th builds and have maybe a silly question but it bugs me nonetheless. I have been using dental ligatures to temporarily support my guides as I place them so that I can test cast and do static loading before finalizing guide location. When I am sliding the guides around a bit to fine tune placement I have noticed that I sometimes slightly scratch the finish on the blank. I try to be careful but the runners especially are pretty darn small and hard to always keep from rubbing on the blank.

Any tips/suggestions to avoid this issue?

If I do get a few small scratches on the blanks what is best way to touch that up? Currently working on a couple of pointblank spinning builds and have a couple small scratches on them because of these guide tweaks/adjustments.

If the scuffs are going to be covered by my thread no problem but in a few cases I end up tweaking guide location enough so that thread won't cover it. Thanks all for any suggestions.

If those guides are scratching the blank, you don't have them flat and/or there are small burrs on the bottom. Best way to avoid this issue is to properly prepare the guides prior to doing your placement tests.

...........

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If those guides are scratching the blank, you
> don't have them flat and/or there are small burrs
> on the bottom. Best way to avoid this issue is to
> properly prepare the guides prior to doing your
> placement tests.
>
> ...........

I don't have wheel file but have been hand filing the guides and do run the bottoms over my fingernail and they seem smooth. I think my issue might be more related to how tight those dental ligatures fit on the blank (those suckers are super tight). I like that they hold the guides firmly but maybe they are a bit too tight because it is hard sometimes to roll the ligature elastic up onto the guide foot and I think my scuffs sometimes come from that issue. Then when sliding the guides for adjustments while keeping the ligature on guide foot there is sometimes contact between guide/blank. When I am wrapping I have to use a dental cleaning tool (with very small pointed hook) to grab the ligatures and cut-off once thread is sufficient to hold guide. Might look into some other options to temporarily hold my guides in place.

Perhaps use a slightly larger band. I use tape on larger guides (spinning) and tubing on the smaller stuff (4, 5, 6, mm). And, I have 3 different sizes of tubing. Nothing says you do the same thing on every guide. A lot of folks like glue. I tried it, but I prefer tape and/or tubing.

p.s. I have a 3 sided knife sharpener I use to prep the guides. I never have to use the coarse side and rarely the medium. The fine side almost always does the trick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2023 10:23AM by Daryl Ferguson.

I always use tape that I cut in thin strips. I tried dental bands but they were too difficult to remove without damaging the blank (at least for me). I saw something with a bead and a thin elastic cord piece that looked like you could adjust the tension and remove easy enough. I have not tried it yet because the tape is working for me for now.

Here's a picture (hopefully) of what I'm talking about. Looking at picture thinking combination of poor guide prep, bands too tight, small guides, and fat fingers. Look like if I'm going to get into this might need to invest in better tool to prep guides (Don't tell my wife...). Going to have to keep playing with my guide placement process and refine.

Now that I have some scratches how do I touch those up? Gray sharpie or does something else work better?

[www.rodbuilding.org]

In the picture the scuffs/scratches are at bottom left of picture. At first I had placed my guide there and realized it was off alignment a bit and also moved it towards tip a bit. For reference the guide is a size 5 Fuji K-series running guide (pretty small).

Gonna have to learn from the pro's at ICRBE this weekend!

PS: edited this post a few times over lunch break playing with the picture embed code that Bob Foster shared the other day. I don't have photo bucket so was trying out Google Photos and Dropbox. Couldn't get the direct post embed to work for either but do like dropbox a bit better for sharing/linking photos. It is free.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2023 03:07PM by Kevin Fiant.

+1 on the tape cut into appropriately sized strips. Finding more and more the keep it simple creed applies heavily to rodbuilding...

I wouldn’t use a sharpie. It won’t last. Contrary to popular belief, they’re not “permanent”.

Lance, if you decide to try tubing/bands again, get yourself a small pair of cuticle clippers. They’re perfect for snipping the band.

I think if you do two things you'll eliminate the problem. Burnish the underside/foot of the guides by using about 200 grit sandpaper, back and forth a few times until they feel perfectly smooth. and second, use the two line stress test to eliminate the need to tightly hold the guides to the blank. ( see the tutorial at Anglersresouces.net ) This will allow a looser retention and less force tending to scratch.

I notice you are really dressing the foot to get a small angle of attack for the thread. Are you sure you need to do that much? Maybe you are introducing burrs? I simply scrub the top or the foot with a few strokes of 150 sandpaper to provide some grip for the thread. But I use Fuji guides, too, and they don't need much dressing. I see you are using Fujis too, so don't grind them, just dress a little like I do.

I also use the Fuji KLH reduction system with KB/KT runners, the reduction guides located per the KR software so I don't even bother to test cast any more. I could never improve on the software's locations.

How to fix the scratches? In the photo the guide is so close to the scratch just locate it over the scratch and you'll cover it with wrap. Rod won't notice that little move.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2023 12:38PM by Michael Danek.

Your filing looks a little rough. I’ve never had to file Fuji KT running guides (size 4, 4.5, 5, or 5.5’s).

Kevin Fiant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a picture (hopefully) of what I'm talking
> about. Looking at picture thinking combination of
> poor guide prep, bands too tight, small guides,
> and fat fingers. Look like if I'm going to get
> into this might need to invest in better tool to
> prep guides (Don't tell my wife...). Going to
> have to keep playing with my guide placement
> process and refine.
>
> Now that I have some scratches how do I touch
> those up? Gray sharpie or does something else
> work better?
>
> [www.dropbox.com]
> oseup.JPG?dl=0
>
> In the picture the scuffs/scratches are at bottom
> left of picture. At first I had placed my guide
> there and realized it was off alignment a bit and
> also moved it towards tip a bit. For reference
> the guide is a size 5 Fuji K-series running guide
> (pretty small).
>
> Gonna have to learn from the pro's at ICRBE this
> weekend!
>
> PS: edited this post a few times over lunch break
> playing with the picture embed code that Bob
> Foster shared the other day. I don't have photo
> bucket so was trying out Google Photos and
> Dropbox. Couldn't get the direct post embed to
> work for either but do like dropbox a bit better
> for sharing/linking photos. It is free.


If you go to the trouble of uploading your photos to another site anyway, why not just upload them to the photo site here and link to the photo from there. It is not hard at all to do. You have to register but you just upload the photos, click on the photo and then copy the URL and paste it here. That way your photos on a rod building photo site and can be easily called up for years into the future.

Mike Ballard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you go to the trouble of uploading your photos
> to another site anyway, why not just upload them
> to the photo site here and link to the photo from
> there. It is not hard at all to do. You have to
> register but you just upload the photos, click on
> the photo and then copy the URL and paste it here.
> That way your photos on a rod building photo site
> and can be easily called up for years into the
> future.

Mike - I had tried uploading photos to the Photo side of the site a couple time previously but could never get it to work. Tried again today and lo and behold it worked. So I updated the link. I still am going to try and figure out how to get the in-post embedding working similar to Bob Foster because I believe it does add alot of value to posts to have it right in the thread. Thus far that only works for me on mobile app and can only do one at a time (with a few other quirks).

All others - thanks for the feedback. I'm sure I am overthinking things but since these two builds are using higher end blanks want to cross my T's and dot my i's... These two current projects are my first working with Fuji guides and I agree they are quite smooth out of the box. I thought by touching up I could improve on that. My hand file probably not the best tool for that purpose. Also, noticed that the Fuji KB & KT runners have longer feet than the similar CRB LZRs I was using on first two builds. Long enough that I think my fat fingers could use tape to hold. I tried guidefoot glue and wasn't really for me.

@ Micheal - I am using the KR Guide software for layout but being new figured I should test cast a few times just to be sure. Have been doing the two-line static test and the best part of the dental ligatures is that you can quickly move the guides to exactly where you want them with no retaping. But, being as tight as they are have had a few instances of the blank being scratched like picture. Going to refine my process and keep learning until I get process I'm satisfied with that isn't causing scratches on blank.

Thanks again.

Kevin,
I eliminate the problem by using neoprene "O" rings in place of guides when static flexing my blanks.
I buy graduated sizes smaller than the guides because they flex.
I thread them onto blank and line I use to perform the process. They can be slip up and down the blank with zero chance of scratching the paint.
I thread more rings than I think I may need. Just place two or three next to their neighbor if not neded.
Herb

Kevin,
You have received quite a few good replies containing suggestions to eliminate the scratching of your blanks while static load testing. As Michael stated, 2-line static load testing does not require the guides to be held all that tightly; many suppliers sell surgical tubing in different diameters which can be easily cut into bands = get all the sizes and use the appropriate one. As you, I dress the ramp of each guide foot to produce a less abrupt angle which helps the thread to start climbing the foot and, in my opinion, it also makes for a better looking wrap overall. I use a 1? in wide belt sander with 320 grit with extremely light pressure (no sparks or red hot tips), stopping just short of knife-edging the tip. To ensure there are absolutely no burrs, I run the bottom of the foot over a gray ScotchBrite pad at least a half dozen times. I have never scratched a blank using this method.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

@Herb - that is a good idea. May give that a go.

Here is a picture showing the dental ligatures and tools I had been using if anyone is interested. Tried posting on the picture site and again didn't work for me. I'm batting about .125 with the photo side of the site so, I think I'll stick with a separate picture site because it reliably works for me.

[www.dropbox.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2023 06:44PM by Kevin Fiant.

The bands are just too tight! They do not need to be so tight you scratch the blank moving them. Also if you need to move them more than just a little, be sure they are loose enough that you are not so tight agains the blank.

This is obviously more of an issue with painted blanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2023 05:31PM by Phil Erickson.

I never file/prep the feet of Fuji guides, or for that matter any guide. I feel they don’t need it. By filing the foot you remove the the protective finish. If you have problems climbing the toe, just rough it up a little to give the thread a little bite. I know I’m in the minority here, but that’s just me.
Norm

Sand bottom of the guide and around the edge of the front of the guide. When you grind the guide for an easer wrapping angle you can often create burrs or a downward point at the tip of the guide.

Kevin,
The solution is simple.

Use an Arkansas stone for the final prep of the guide foot.

For example:
[www.amazon.com]

Or the Red Ruby stone for an even finer finish.

After prepping the guide foot, run the guide over the stone so that the underside bottom of the guide foot is absolutely smooth and free of any of the tiniest hook or sharp spot that might scratch the finish.

Polish the underside of the guide foot - keeping the guide foot perfectly flat and you will end your scratching problem.

Of course, it is even better if you incorporate this with a single placement of your guide foot on the rod and do not change it - once initially placed.

Best Wishes.

Sliding the guide on the blank must be kept to a minimum, most dental bands tend to be too tight and causes the guide to have a hard rub on the blank. No matter how carefully one preps the guide foot it will still scratch the blank if rubbed too hard.

It is best if the guide can be lifted and moved rather than slid into place.

I use the mini wood spring clothes pins for the childrens doll stuff. They can be made narrower by shaving off some of the side. They have just the right tension and are easily moveable.

Also, the closer you place the guide at its location the less adjustment is needed.