I'm beginning to gather components for a steelhead rod for a customer and I need an opinion on potential abrasion. The customer uses baitcasting reels on 10'-11' rods with the floating line customarily used with center pin reels. Not using that kind of line myself, I'm concerned on it's effect on the guide rings. What is compounding the problem is he wants black guide frames and rings. Luckily I have a bunch of Fuji BMNAT with black frames and rings for the double foot guides. I know I can get zirconium, Alconite, and SiC rings in the single foot fly guides being used for runners which I would be happy with, but not in his desired color combination. I'm dubious about aluminum oxide's longevity and I don't know the wear resistance for nickle/titanium (REC). I could ask any of the suppliers, but I would have to discern if it's a sales pitch or straight facts. So I'm looking for honest unbiased answers from you. Thanks!

Dave Sytsma

In my experience, I have never had a problem with any ceramic guide grooving. However, I’ve seen some grooving on some very old aluminum oxide tip tops, but not with any of the newer modern varieties. To help convince yourself as to how groove resistant ceramic guides are, do the following. Take any salvaged large ring ceramic guide and try to cut it using a hacksaw blade. I’ll guarantee you won’t be able to do it. In fact you will damage the saw blade before scratching the guide. There are a number of companies that sell black ceramic fly rod guides.
Norm

David,
If you are worried about abrasion, go ahead and use the guides you have to do the rod build. But, make a point to purchase an SIC tip top.

In a rod like this, about 90% of the heavy wear is on the tip top. This is simply because this is where the head shaking and hard runs are first seen by the rod and the tip doe all of the blank directing and wear and tear for the rest of the rod guides.

The rod guide generally are more or less just going on for the fun of it.

Best wishes

Thanks, guys. I was able to find a Forecast tiptop that will fill the bill for the tip. I'm going to see what I can get for the runners: Norm makes a good point on the latest generation of aluminum oxide rings. This is a high dollar rod and I obviously want it to meet the customer's expectations.

David Sytsma Wrote:
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> Thanks, guys. I was able to find a Forecast tiptop
> that will fill the bill for the tip. I'm going to
> see what I can get for the runners: Norm makes a
> good point on the latest generation of aluminum
> oxide rings. This is a high dollar rod and I
> obviously want it to meet the customer's
> expectations.

For single foot with ceramic - in black - Batson Forecast BFLG for 304 black stainless with hard aluminum oxide rings, or Batson Alps XBFLG for the 316 stainless variety.

BSFLG and BSFNG for traditional wire ring/snake guides

I'm in agreement with Norman and Roger. Never had a guide groove, only old cheap tiptops.

I got the same advice from Norm a few years ago at the expo. I couldn't wait to get home and try it. Sure enough, he was spot on in his assessment. Then again, he typically is.

I would not worry about abrasion with any modern type of guide. I have had the black paint peel off the Fuji black guides so I really wouldn't worry about the black anodized REC guides (if that is what it is). AT and Seaguide both make black guides. I believe Kigan does also.

No quality guide will groove in a noticeable way.

I have a rod I built on standard duty guides Aluminum Oxide guides in 1985 for jigging Florida wrecks, when I retired in '91 it has had a diet of 80 lb. Tufline braid on oversize sturgeon to 10 ft., zero guide problems including the tip.