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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 26, 2022 04:33PM

These type discussions are eventual forum killers. So one last time - Stick to custom custom rod building topics and away from opinions on other people's posts and most times all will be well.


...............

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 26, 2022 05:45PM

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris, you're absolutely right. I do make some
> extremely long posts, Some that go on and on about
> things that are probably only of interest to me,
> and possibly a few others. I also have a tendency
> to say the same things multiple times within the
> same post. I just word them differently. Usually
> when I do that, I am doing it to present the
> information in a way that may make more sense than
> the first way I tried to explain it.
>
> I think the latter part comes from me being an
> instructor at my place of employment. I am often
> working with new employees and at times when I
> explain how to do something to them, I get a blank
> stare back in return. They don't understand what I
> am trying to teach them, because they have no
> experience with the processes we use, or the
> machines we make.
>
> Anyhow .... as I said, I know I can go on and on
> in my posts. And if someone were to mention it, I
> would do as I am doing now, and readily admit to
> it. It wouldn't hurt my feelings, because I know I
> do it. And I get annoyed with myself when I do it.
> I know those kind of long posts get passed over
> because they can become tedious to someone that
> doesn't have the interest that I do in a
> particular subject. I liken it to giving someone
> directions on how to get somewhere. You can give
> them nice easy to follow directions without a lot
> of details, or you can give them long drawn out
> directions with a lot of different details. Which
> set of directions is more likely to get them lost?
> My experience has been that the more details, the
> more likely it is to get lost. Give the directions
> short and sweet, and if someone asks for details,
> provide them
>
> I also (and I am referencing the referrals to
> Norman now) would consider someone suggesting that
> my posts would be more well received if I made
> them shorter, and more on topic, as that person
> trying to help me, and not as if they were picking
> on me. And I certainly wouldn't call them out as
> if they were trying to silence me, or take away my
> right to make as long of a post as I want, just to
> please them. I would do as I am doing now, and
> understand and acknowledge that I understand that
> they are trying to help me get my point across.
> And while I wouldn't have thanked me for the posts
> I made in this thread, other than my first one, I
> would have thanked those whose posts were more
> well intended.
>
> I can see that I am doing it yet again, and
> running on and on about the same dang thing. I'll
> say no more on this subject.
>
> And El ...... thanks for defining what TL:DR
> means. I had no idea.

You got it David! Like I said, I was mostly just making a joke because of this thread. And honestly David I've gone back to posts from the past couple years as results of searches and appreciate the time you take to type a lengthy post. And I agree giving directions on where to go is most times better left short, but giving directions on how to repair an engine or test the general health of an eco system and you better make sure the details are explained multiple times in multiple different ways to make sure the person has ample opportunity to grasp what you're handing them.

@ALL who are still interested I would like to continue this discussion- I shared that I recently ordered an X-RAY 7109 for 3/4-1oz jigs/worms/swim jigs. It will be pitched and flipped and casted, anybody have any feedback on the blank specifically?

I'm also thinking to order the FLIP 766IM for 1/2 oz presentations of the same sort, but will also try some chatterbait and 1oz ploppers. It's a FLIP stick, but the specs I've seen make me curious how outta bounds it can go and explore its versatility.

Lastly I'm thinking of the MB 667/8 IM (Not sure which yet) for the same thing plus spinners and whatever else it might do well with some testing, but again primarily for close quarters pitching and jungle casting with jigs/swim jigs.

Can anybody share any good flipping/pitching vids?

Any length of feedback would be appreciated ;)
All jokes aside let's be the bunch of good guys on the internet looking out for each other and not like other forums (edited because auto correct and emotional didn't work).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2022 09:12PM by El Bolinger.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: December 26, 2022 06:25PM

Matt, that's pretty funny "my last name being banned" I thought that only happened around here! Lol Perhaps I'm too argumentative! Maybe the man's holding me down. Have a good one. By the way, I agree with Tom, this is a rodbuilding forum.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 06:45PM by Lynn Behler.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 26, 2022 08:30PM

Read Rich Forhan's articles "Magic Wands" on Flipping and Pitchin' rods. He's the guy many if not most of the high level pros go by.

..........

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: December 27, 2022 11:00AM

I really don’t separate reels and custom rods. Every rod I build for myself is built with a specific reel in mind, and in hand. Kent is one of the most knowledgeable and innovative builders on this forum. He has a obvious grasp of physics that guides his approaches at improving rod function.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Ken Delbridge (192.55.54.---)
Date: December 27, 2022 02:12PM

I tend to be a little bit biased towards Shimano products but having used Curado K's and DC's over the last few years I would recommend either. The DC is specifically useful if you are having to pitch through thick overhangs where you often have to get through some stuff to get to a target. The SLX's are also quite nice if you aren't ready for Curado pricing.

For pitching baits, I would recommend the NFC MB708 IM or MB709 HM. Both will get it done, but I wouldn't go lighter than the MB708 if you are pitching to heavy cover. The Rainshadow REVC72MH or Immortal line equivalent are also good blanks for this, but I find the Revelation and Immortal blanks to be a bit tip heavy. Not bagging on Rainshadow for that, they are still great blanks and have a true fast to extra-fast actions where the NFC blanks are almost always more moderate actioned. If you look around you will find most true fast/extra-fast blanks will be tip heavy in general (byproduct of making that action true).

The NFC FLIP blanks are nice, but the FLIP764 I would consider to be a finesse flip/pitch rod, and from fishing one it also makes for a great Carolina rig/football jig rod (especially if you like braid/braid to leader setups). It's notably light and balances very well with a 15-16in handle, it has done well for me for pitching small 3/16-1/4oz weights to sparse cover as well. To be honest - I am going to likely build myself a 2nd FLIP764 at some point in 2023 because it fits a few of my needs, and it's so dang light (it will be a dedicated C-rig/football jig rod). However for traditional flip/pitch work I would look at the FLIP766 or FLIP769. If fishing lots of grass or >1/2oz baits on the regular? Go with the FLIP769.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 27, 2022 09:24PM

@KENDALL good stuff my man, how much of a difference do you see switching out reels on a build? And Kent definitely has some great posts even going back quite a ways.

@KEN thanks for the info, wicked helpful. You touched on a few blanks I was looking at and I appreciate it. You said the 764 fits a few of your needs, aside from light c-rig and jig (assuming you still mean it's best at 3/16-1/4 oz) what else do you think it could do well? Chatterbait?

NFC site has the 764 and 766 both rated as 1/4-1oz but I was thinking of spending most of my time with 3/8 and never more than 1/2 oz. I think mostly sparse - moderate cover and save the MB7109 for the thick stuff.

For swimjigs/jigs/worms/ (and trying chatterbait) all around 3/8-1/2 oz which of the 3 rods (FLIP764, FLIP766, MB708) do you think would do best?

Would you say the MB708 is a true fast, I'm looking for something more moderate fast. I know these terms mean different things to different people, but from your experience I'm asking.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Ken Delbridge (192.55.54.---)
Date: December 28, 2022 12:02PM

El I wouldn't use the FLIP 764 for any reaction baits, the tip isn't right for it. For c-rigs and football jigs, you could definitely sling a 1/2-1oz bait with it, but for pitching/flipping applications I think it would be undergunned for that weight range. If you are mainly pitching a 3/8-1/2oz baits, the FLIP764 could do it, but I think you'd be happier with the FLIP 766. However, if you wanted an all around jig/c-rig/light-duty pitching stick the MB764 will fit, and if you are planning the MB7109 for the heavier lifting, then I think you would have a nice combination. In terms of what else with the FLIP 764? I think you can fish any 3/16-1/2oz bottom bait with that rod comfortably, and up to 3/4-1oz if it's a dragging bait (i.e. a c-rig or football jig).

If you want an all around NFC blank for swimjigs/worms/light duty jigs pick up the MB706 HM, it's a great all around blank, you could even get away with tossing a bladed bait with it. Out of the blanks you listed, the FLIP 764 would probably do best as an "all-around" stick, but it wouldn't be my first choice if I was building an all-around stick for myself.

The MB708 IM is great for worms/jigs/pitching and I would consider it a moderate fast blank, I just wish they had an MB708 HM, nonetheless it's still usually found on my deck. I wouldn't toss a reaction bait with it, not enough tip. As already mentioned, I would not consider any of the FLIP blanks for reaction baits either.

If you throw a lot of reaction baits I have been highly impressed with the NFC Zentron hybrids for bladed jigs, spinnerbaits, crankbaits... The sensitivity, weight, & tip action are a unique combination with that blank series.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 28, 2022 03:24PM

Hello All.

Here is where to find the "Wands".

Vol/Issue-------Name--------------------------------------Author-------------Page.
24/1 Magic Wands #10-The Drop Shot Rod By Rich Forhan. 12
24/2 Magic Wands #11-The Swimbait Rod By Rich Forhan. 10
24/2 Magic Wands #12-The Skippin' Rod By Rich Forhan. 12
23/3 Magic Wands #1-The Flip/Pitch Rod By: Rich Forhan. 22
23/3 Magic Wands #2-The Float & Fly Rod By: Rich Forhan. 24
23/4 Magic Wands #3- The Jigs/Worm Rod By: Rich Forhan. 10
23/4 Magic Wands #4- The SENKO Tube Rod By: Rich Forhan. 12
23/5 Magic Wands #5-The Spinnerbait Rod By Rich Forhan. 10
23/5 Magic Wands #6-The Shakey Head Rod By Rich Forhan. 12
23/6 Magic Wands #7-The Doodle Slide Rod By Rich Forhan. 10
23/6 Magic Wands #8-The Crankin' Rod By Rich Forhan. 12
24/1 Magic Wands #9-The Topwater Rod By Rich Forhan. 10

Enjoy!

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 28, 2022 04:31PM

Couldn't agree more with Ken on the MB 709 and his assessment of the Rainshadow 72MH blank he mentioned., I have a rod built on Immortal version of that blank, and as he said, it is a tip heavy blank. But is IMO, a phenomenal blank., As far as tip heaviness in rods, I have zero problem adding weight at the butt of a rod (bottom contact bait rods) to counteract any tip heaviness a rod might have. I added 2 3/8 oz to the butt of the rod I have built on the Immortal 72MH blank.

I also added weight to the butt of the 2 rods I built on the MB 709 blank. I went with the IM series. I added 1 oz to the butt of one of the rods and 1 3/4 oz (I think it was) to the butt of one of them. Different rear grips. Carbon fiber versus a cork grip I made that has a good amount of rubberized cork in it. I like the balance of those type of rods to be tip light. Makes it so much nicer to fish with. And more efficient as well.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: December 28, 2022 07:53PM

The biggest difference in switching reels is certainly on spinning reels as spool diameter and shaft height/angle changes how the line goes through multiple guides. Modern, low profile baitcasters seem to have their levelwind guides relatively close in height. Bigger, non-leveling and round reels can vary a lot. For a drop shot rig balance is important. Having the reel allows you to get the balance just the way you want it by fine adjustments on where you put the seat (spli grips allow you to adjust) Even with the small variation in low profile, compact baitcasting reels, having the reel allows you to pick trim, thread and VooDoo Dust colors that work with it.

My little Daiwa Alphas 103 went down last season with worn out casting bearings, which I have now ordered. I swapped it on it’s SCV72MM blank based crankbait rod with my very similar Curado MGL70K . The gear ratio on the Shimano was too fast for crankbaits and it just didn’t palm the same. I palm that same reel on it’s normal jerkbait rod and never mind the feel. With crankbaits, though, it just didn’t feel familiar. To me, the ultimate reason for custom rods is to match every last piece to each other and their intended use.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: El Bolinger (---)
Date: December 28, 2022 08:16PM

@KEN and DAVID thanks! I already had ordered the 7109 so I didn't want to go with the 709/769 because they felt too similar in application. I went with the 766 to fit my swim jig/ jig / middle ground trig set up - when you say it's not good for reaction baits like chatterbait or spinnerbait why is that?
Tip too firm or soft?

You said you wished they had in HM VS IM - can you tell that much a difference?

Maybe I'll grab a weighted butt.

I also grabbed the MB668 IM, I liked the stats on paper, even though I have no real reference just going by all y'all on here. I wanted something strong with a moderate fast feel for casting under brandywine l branches and close targets.

Appreciate y'all!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2022 10:22PM by El Bolinger.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: December 28, 2022 09:01PM

If I said anything to upset anyone throughout this thread, I apologize. This did not go well in my view and I don't know what happened.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 30, 2022 11:29PM

@KENDALL I had been typing up my previous response and didn't know you posted until now. Would you mind if we connected through email? I'd really like to talk more about your process for building.

@KEN - do you feel like those rods are too soft for chatter/spinnerbait/swimjig?

Why wish they made an HM version- IM noticeably less sensitive or something?

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 19, 2023 09:40AM

El Bolinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @KEN and DAVID thanks! ... when you say it's not good
> for reaction baits like chatterbait or spinnerbait
> why is that?
> Tip too firm or soft? ????????????????????????


>
> You said you wished they had in HM VS IM - can you
> tell that much a difference? ????????????????????


>
> Maybe I'll grab a weighted butt.
>
> I also grabbed the MB668 IM, I liked the stats on
> paper, even though I have no real reference just
> going by all y'all on here. I wanted something
> strong with a moderate fast feel for casting under
> brandywine l branches and close targets.
>
> Appreciate y'all!

@KENDALL I'd also like to talk about your dropshot build approach - if you wouldn't mind emailing me so we could connect I'd really appreciate it (but no pressure, I know we're not not supposed to talk to strangers haha)

My blanks finally arrived, I'm pumped!

What guides do you recommend for these (SIZE,STYLE,BRAND)? How do you determine what guide size is best anyway?

What real seat?

With them I have some carbon fiber split grips, but for the 7109 should I use a full length grip? Maybe the 766 too? Balance them a little better? Cork instead of CF?

Thanks y'all!

Building rods in MA, daydreaming of fishing in CA

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