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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: December 24, 2022 11:14PM

Norm...thanks for the explanation on drag washers...
My particular situation is that I dont lock the drag down and use a lighter lb test like 14lb.
The old drag washers, on occasion, would lock up and...well no bueno.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 25, 2022 05:32AM

No, the instagage clutch on the Castaics does not, and did not operate like a flipping switch. You don't have to flip a switch on the reel to activate the feature. You don't have to hold down the thumb bar so the spool stays disengaged to pull line off the spool for flipping.; And you don't have to hold down the thumb bar to keep the spool disengaged while pitching.

It operates just like a regular thumb bar of that period. The Castaics had two significant differences over say the Citica, Curado, or Chronarch of the same time period. The major one was that the spool of the Castaic could be re engaged by pushing the thumb bar in the opposite direction. And the other significant difference was in the design of the thumb bar. Odd that a reel tech of so many years wouldn't be aware of that?


And just as an in case others didn't know kind of thing, the spool can be re engaged on at least some of the newer Shimano low profile casting reels, by pushing the thumb bar back up into position. I know it for sure can be done on the SLX 70 MGL, and the Curado 200 I, 200 K, and 150 MGL. It's a pain in the you know what to do though, as it's difficult getting a finger tip or thumb tip under the bar once it's disengaged.

Addition : I gotta agree with those mentioning the super long posts. Especially ones that aren't even remotely related to the topic of the thread. This is not the kind of place for those kind of posts. At least not IMO.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2022 05:40AM by David Baylor.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: December 25, 2022 08:24AM

External quote:

"Quantum's Flippin' switch requires the angler to depress the thumb bar to draw out the necessary amount of line out from the reel. This slack line is held in the angler's free hand while the other hand negotiates the rod and reel to gently flip the lure out. Once the thumb bar is released the reel pops back in gear providing instant readiness for hookset without the need to switch hands or turn the handle over to engage the reel. The Flippin' switch makes this technique easier to manage and allows you to focus your attention on hitting targets with each swing rather than fumbling with constantly putting the reel back in gear every time you make a line adjustment."

Most so called flipping reels I see function like this one. Key word: most. And to me, this is just another useless gimmick, yet untold numbers of reels were sold like this and fishermen across the country and around the world had to try and learn to use them as they were designed to function. And getting older, I need that ease of use more than ever now.

The function I want is a one handed reel with thumb bar that locks into cast mode freeing up my thumb to feather line out on tail end of flip into holes taking extra line off reel as it drops down into hole. I want my thumb free from having to hold down the thumb bar while at same time trying to feather out the line as I want it. This type of reel does not function how I need it to function, so I found a reel that does lock down as I want and I can push a button instantly to reset it when I need it to reset. Designed by pro bass fisherman- for once. Only one reel in all my years meets my requirements which I thought would be a good idea to share the love so others can work less and enjoy fishing more- as I see it. I shaved two mechanical motions off Denny Brauer's legendary technique. Something like that has value to me. I thought it might be to others as well.




You did not mention if the reel I brought to your attention in this thread was meeting you requirements?



Edited 17 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 04:51AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: December 25, 2022 08:59AM

Chris Catignani Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Norm...thanks for the explanation on drag
> washers...
> My particular situation is that I dont lock the
> drag down and use a lighter lb test like 14lb.
> The old drag washers, on occasion, would lock up
> and...well no bueno.


What reel is this Chris?

And are you saying you flip with 14lb line? Or pitch?

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: December 25, 2022 12:39PM

Peter Yawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm gonna go Ryobi on your special flipping reel.

Merry Christmas Peter!

Its a brush buster! Kidding



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 04:53AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 25, 2022 05:53PM

Well now ............ while I doubt it was Shimano's bottom of the line up, junk plastic reel at the time, it was the Citica and not the Castaic that was lower in the line up than the Curado. As I remember it, the line up at the time was Citica, Curado, Castaic, Chronarch, and that order stood until the Castaic was discontinued, As you mentioned, the Castaic and Curado share many parts, Especially once the 2nd generation of the Castic came out. Aside from the different spool engagement systems, they were virtually the same reel.

I've taken both the first and second generation Castaics as well as the Curado 200 B and D series reels that I still own apart for maintenance numerous times over the years and other than the aforementioned different spool engagement parts, all the other parts appear to be the same identical parts. As for your stated reason as to why a reel tech doesn't see many Castaic reels, I suspect it's because like the older Curados, the Castaics don't break. As you said, my Castaic reels are approaching being 30 years old, and they have seen heavy use and I've never had a single problem with any of my Castaics. And I have owned 6 Castaics over the years, Currently I own 4 of them with 3 of them still seeing regular use, The only thing I have done to them other than the regular maintenance I mentioned earlier, is to replace the spool bearings with ceramic hybrid bearings, Otherwise they are as stock as stock can be, and still going strong.

I would go further into some of the other things you've said n a couple of your posts in this thread, but I really don't want to escalate this into an argument. You have your experiences, and I have mine. Let's just leave it at that.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: December 25, 2022 07:04PM

Sometimes I wish I'd never started reading something.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: December 25, 2022 09:26PM

Lynn B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sometimes I wish I'd never started reading
> something.

LOL

P.S. why is Lynn's last name a banned word. Everytime ive tried to quote a post from lynn i get the banned word message. so weird

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Peter Yawn (---.mpls.qwest.net)
Date: December 25, 2022 09:44PM

I figured the reel would be a product of one of the oem giants like doyo or banax. The question was whose name got put on it. I did find a couple pinnacle reels that looked close to your picture with an all sideplates. Odd that there aren't 12 versions of that same reel with different brand names. Maybe BPS picked out a unique collection of parts that no one else wanted. Seems very likely there is a doyo branded version of the reel that was not sold in the us.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: December 26, 2022 02:32AM

Matt Ruggie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------
> P.S. why is Lynn's last name a banned word.
> Everytime ive tried to quote a post from lynn i
> get the banned word message. so weird

Your not the first to notice this.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: December 26, 2022 04:30AM

> > Sometimes I wish I'd never started reading
> > something.
>


Same here over 90% of the time and now save myself ahead of time based on experience. Make it over 95%. I came to read Phil Enwicki. Best part of the day!

Another drive by sabo on this one. Last one to. So be happy!

Posted by: Peter Yawn (---.mpls.qwest.net)
Date: December 25, 2022 09:44PM

I figured the reel would be a product of one of the oem giants like doyo or banax. The question was whose name got put on it. I did find a couple pinnacle reels that looked close to your picture with an all sideplates. Odd that there aren't 12 versions of that same reel with different brand names. Maybe BPS picked out a unique collection of parts that no one else wanted. Seems very likely there is a doyo branded version of the reel that was not sold in the us."


Pinnacle was one of my choices as well until I found a second one online by accident. Usually Johnny Morris puts all the bells and whistles into his reels and takes a few from his other signature lines like Rick Clunn. This one was certainly no different. Thankfully it was well built. Kind of ironic that I take the bells and whistles off the Johnny Morris reels and put them into the Rick Clunn reels.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 08:56AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 26, 2022 06:16AM

LOL Lynn ........ we both should have stopped while we were all ahead.

I have should have known better. I promise it won't happen ever again.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: December 26, 2022 08:30AM

You don't have to worry. It won't happen again.

I asked permission to post this thread about reels. Permission was granted.

There is quite a bit off the forum discussion going on which was the inspiration for this thread. I thought it would be a good idea to share with custom rod builders ways to do things differently and start with the environment and reels leading into the rods at the end.

I wanted to create a thread of pure info only, about environmental reasons for why we construct the gear we do. I had to establish the two sides I see in Florida. As soon as I did that Spencer came out complaining with this:

"Have the rules been changed? Posts like those above from Kent take up a lot of room and aren't particularly enlightening on a rod building forum. Bass fishing forums are Facebook are a better place."

I posted information about a topic I thought I had permission to discuss to avoid negative hits like Spencer's. I did not address any person. Yet, for some reason as soon as I post topic information, I am accused of breaking the rules, too many words, don't like the photos, and what I post is worthless information having nothing to do with rod building, and please leave the forum is how this comes across. Its offensive. And it should never be allowed to be posted when it knowingly causes harm to others trying to do something good and positive. Hits like these take the wind right out of the sails and should be deleted so the thread and information topic can stay on track.

Tom Kirkman said this forum is a repository of knowledge. Aleks Maslov said this is one of the things that interested him about this forum.

This thread I started was to be exactly that. I wanted to post only information about a TOPIC and nothing else. I came with good intentions to post positive contributions of information gained from decades of experience only to be shot down as soon as I get started. And I have to ask why?

To each of you who have derailed this thread unnecessarily, you have defeated the purpose of this forum and smugly post how you behave. This is hurting the forum as I see it. Now here is yet another useless thread allowed to derail because management lets it happen in my opinion. Management should step in and say hey, you are stopping an information thread from moving forward with your whining and complaining. Send that to admin and keep it off the forum please so the forum can be a place for information, not one-line posts of no info. Keep forum purpose in mind before you post- you know, a repository of info not personal attacks and @#$%&. Are your words going to add to the repository of knowledge or not? That's where I draw the line. Clearly others do not.

My plan for this thread was a step-by-step process of going through reels, environment, and how rods are constructed from this, and even some flipping reel history. Yet as soon as I get out of the gate- sabotage. And then personal insults. I have said on this forum before we should all stay on topic only. No member should ever turn any words upon other members period. I go out of my way to stay on topic and do not level words towards people on a personal level like what is done to me. And I have said before it is unacceptable. And I consider this a forum management issue.

When old folks- or anyone- come here to share their life's efforts, forum members should say thank you. We appreciate that you would take the time to share so we can all benefit. That is what I and others should expect. But that is NOT what I get. I get this:

"Have the rules been changed? Posts like those above from Kent take up a lot of room and aren't particularly enlightening on a rod building forum. Bass fishing forums are Facebook are a better place."

I should never be subjected to such comments. I should be allowed to develop the positive information contribution I had planned without negativity of any kind showing up on the thread. No reason for it. No excuse for it. Spencer was not positively contributing nor encouraging my continued attempt to contribute. And David started off contributing until the top of the second page and then every word was aimed squarely at me. And, when such hits come in, turn about is fair play as they say so I gave it back and I probably should not have, but the thread was already derailed at that point. Let people contribute is all I can say. Don't derail and attack people and falsely accuse them of breaking rules when a positive informative contribution is posted. You may not like it, but so what? Why should one person destroy the efforts of others and be allowed to do so? And leave it standing? If you want positive constructive information posted here then let it be posted without complaining and harassing the person doing the contributing. So you can pat 3 people on the back now for getting rid of yet another one... save me a seat at the bar Phil!

Some of you may know this, but most do not, but I too am a forum owner have been since 1995 for 27 years I have owned and run my own forum. My forum does not have this type of problem with our members going after each other- and the band and its fans are a very rowdy bunch. Its not allowed and will be deleted. I have a duty to protect all members and to guide all members to stay on topic and do NOT turn any words upon other members like I see here. Freedom of speech is great for topics, but not for any words directed at other members for any reason. 27 years owning and running a forum. I am very familiar with forum operation. And I don't mind saying I am having issues with this one.

When I see someone on my forum going after another member in any way, I put a stop to it instantly. The person on receiving end does not even have to complain to us in admin to do something about it. We already are because we insist on civility and staying on topic. I wish this forum had the same policy top down. I get emails thanking me for taking care of problems like that on my own without them having to complain to admin about it.

Since I do the software development of my forum, one of the things I do for people who want to write is to let them control their content and threads. So if someone tries to derail it, the author has the ability to clean up their own thread to keep it on track as necessary. We also give the author the ability to lock their own threads just so they can develop it how they want to before opening it up to forum comments. And they have the ability to block people who want to intentionally cause trouble on their thread. I wish I had same here. If I can't control my content and its positive continuous flow without derailment and sabotage, then why bother is how I see it.

So if I were allowed, all useless posts in this thread would be deleted so I can get it back on track and be able to post the information I wanted to post and had permission to post before this thread got derailed. As the author of the planned information I wanted to share in order step by step I would lock this thread down until I am finished with my positive contribution. And once done, if anyone wants to come in and start slinging their smug negativity around, do so only after I am done with it. Doing so while I am in the beginning of a process did not work out for any of us. I see this as a management issue big time.

Another issue I have I mentioned in this thread when Norm said I have not broken any rules, but please shorten your comments and just post links only. I said I cannot agree with this policy, especially from admin. Again, Tom and Aleks have said this forum is a repository of knowledge. Not links to other sites. If this forum is to be a repository of knowledge then it must be run as such and presently it isn't when admin is telling me to skip all the words and info I want to PUT INTO a repository of knowledge and only post links that can go dead at any time leaving this forum with no info and useless dead links.

Besides that, I am writing my own content. There are no links to it off this forum. All I have is my words.

In my opinion, to meet the repository of knowledge criteria, this thinking of posting links only has to go. A repository grows from posted words of information here on this site. Links do not cut it and never will. And so if this is coming from admin, Houston we have a problem contrary to the stated goals of the forum.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree links to online articles and
> pictures should be used vs copying and pastings
> since it does cut down on the amount of space
> used.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your posts would be better received if they were
> shorter and less detailed. If people want more
> information they can contact you.

Chris wrote:
Norm..,Please tell me you kidding me?

I wish he were.

Aleks and Tom, I tried to honor your wishes of creating a repository of knowledge and information, but clearly I cannot proceed as things presently stand. And since its not my forum, there is nothing I can do about the off-topic words aimed offensively at other members without just cause.

"Addition : I gotta agree with those mentioning the super long posts. Especially ones that aren't even remotely related to the topic of the thread. This is not the kind of place for those kind of posts." (um, it was my thread. My subject.And I had admin permission to pursue it)

So at this time I have reached the end of the road. Since I am powerless to have any control over my efforts, and because I cannot control the trying to stay positive constructive development of my efforts on this forum as I should be able to without personalized intrusive offensiveness done intentionally without accountability as 3 times I have been asked to leave, I would ask admin to please delete this thread and permanently close my forum account at soonest possible time. Please do to me what was done to Phil Enwicki. I have reached the end of the road here. And it is I who should have known better. It won't happen again. See ya! I'll leave the email up since I am getting quite a bit of emails from some great people. Thank you all.

I wish each of you all the best.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 10:52AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: December 26, 2022 10:11AM

Chris Catignani Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Matt Ruggie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> > P.S. why is Lynn's last name a banned word.
> > Everytime ive tried to quote a post from lynn i
> > get the banned word message. so weird
>
> Your not the first to notice this.

gotcha. very odd. i couldnt figure out why i couldn't post after a few tries i noticed the message up top lol

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: December 26, 2022 11:35AM

Well..to quote a catchphrase from the Torch.
"Flame on"

Firstly in brief...I am really disappointed to see how Kent was treated on the thread.

I totally blows my mind why anyone would think a text message is too long!! And to think it takes up too much space!
And to think that showing pictures here in the thread is worse than having them posted on the picture board.
(Psst...thats not how it works) FYI....you have ALWAYS been able to post pictures in the message board.
Its called forum markup code...

I like Kents detailed explanations. If you think its too long...OMG dont read it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 11:35AM by Chris Catignani.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 26, 2022 01:03PM

At the risk of escalating this into even more hurt feelings. I will just say, as briefly as I can.

Bringing into question whether or not such long and detailed posts (one that had no bearing on the subject at hand) are appropriate for this type of forum, was in no way out of line. It was suggested that there may be better places for such long and detailed posts. Nothing more than that. Very reasonable and understandable explanations were given to explain such requests.

As far as Kent feeling he was personally and unfairly attacked, which based on his latest post, he clearly does, other than my calling into question his knowledge as a reel tech as to how the Castaic reels work, I saw nothing anyone said that could be considered a personal or unfair attack. I don't even feel my calling into question his knowledge about the Castaic reels as being unfair. I wasn't calling into question as to whether he was really a reel tech or not. I was calling into question whether or not someone should know how a certain reel works, before they start talking about how other reels are better.

And finally, as to my post prior to this one.Was it a bit mean spirited? Yes, most definitely. But at the same time it was an apology to other members reading this thread, for my part in taking the thread in a direction it shouldn't have gone.

As I said earlier ..... I should have known better.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 26, 2022 01:38PM

@ALEKS AND TOM Please don't delete this thread, I haven't finished reading it all. I've screenshotted it just in case though.I've been looking forward to reading it since it started, Christmas and sick family kept me away. I'm grateful Kent was willing to share what many anglers/builders might know but will die before sharing. Too many old timers take the best fishing secrets to their grave and never benefit the next generation, the fishing community can be surprisingly selfish in that regard - like helping somebody fish better will wreck the fishing for them. I hope the same isn't true for building.

I'll be honest, I can not understand anybody saying "share less" or "be less detailed" or " your sharing too much information." If a person already knows so much a thread like this isn't helpful and they've been around so long they already know or have settled with what they do know and don't want to "hear it all again" they have the option to click on another thread (or skip to the TL:DR).

But I for one, and I'm assuming many new members who happens to he interested in a forum like this wants posts like this and wants pics in the posts - not some other place we have to log into. The next generation of builders uses technology and apps and likes things streamlined, we always all the info in one place. Some still might not like a long read, but will pick out and skim the bits they want and move on.

If this site wants new builders and new members it's going to have to do some new things, like Aleks seems to be moving towards with the apps, but i thinknits going to tale more than an app to bring new life to this community. Similarly I have been part of other forums for writing and music. One day all of my work I posted there was just gone, the site was dead. No link can bring it back, I learned a valuable lesson in backing up my data in the cloud. Plus sites never want users to leave and visit another site, it's best practice to keep things in house where our sponsors want people.

I respect and appreciate all of you and everything all of you have to say, agree or not - it's not the point. I would listen to anyone of you (or read) go on for any length because I respect your experience and willingness to share. I appreciate that you've been around longer than me and know some things I don't.

Already a number of the members here have shown themselves to be wonderful people, kind and generous, and willing to teach those willing to learn.
I'm willing to learn and very much wish more people would post so many details - answering questions that night be asked later ahead of time. It's the best approach for this site to be an absolute hub for all things building (even the things that are just related- like a tributary of thought in a river of knowledge).

Also it's very helpful to answer questions other newer people might not think to ask, even if it's just from the tributary it can be helpful.

I've looked back through a handful of years of posts and have seem some people contribute more than others, and sometimes people post more without contributing as much, but there is certainly a bunch of you here who have a lot to say and I would love to hear it. All of it. Not the abridged version for my reading pleasure, but the full version for my study. I don't know if any of you are part of any other fishing forums, but so far I've come to value all of the people here and what they have to share, I wish we could talk more about other fishing related things instead of posting in another forum and have 11 dudes in their 20's try to tell me the best way to ______ - of course I would listen and take it in, but I'd much rather get that info from someone who has been doing it for 5 to 10 times as long. I wish I could post a thread and ask you all about fishing and what you do AND WHY (because I want the details, understanding why helps me absorb the info).

I hope nobody takes this as anything more than it is, I write this towards nobody specifically and genuinely appreciate all of you - I just couldn't not say anything and if any of these places/names/ were changed I'd be doing the same. A website based around sharing information shouldn't be asking for less information- if Kent started a post about transmissions in Japanese cars I would agree.

TL:DR (Too Long Didn't Read) <-----[this is mostly a joke, but just in case]
This is a very helpful format for sharing a vast amount of info at one time in one place for current and future users to find and benefit from, we should all be sharing as much as we know as much as possible to foster growth in all of us. This is already a considerably niche interest and there is no need for us to be giving anyone a reason not to join/contribute/stick around. I truly appreciate all of you and everything you have to say and hope this site and community continues to grow.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: December 26, 2022 01:42PM

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bringing into question whether or not such long
> and detailed posts ... are appropriate for this type of
> forum.....

David...What actually constitutes a long and detailed post?
Your first post on this thread has 769 words...4,063 characters.
Obviously under your preconceived threshold. (I'm just playing the Devils advocate here..)

You of all people David...your posts tend to be on the long winded side too.
But you know what? They needed to be...because you have something to say.
Say it with gusto and flair and by all means...add pictures.

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 26, 2022 02:26PM

Stick to custom custom rod building topics and away from opinions on other people's posts and most times all will be well.

........

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Re: Flippin' & Pitchin' Reels - And Rods
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 26, 2022 04:23PM

Chris, you're absolutely right. I do make some extremely long posts, Some that go on and on about things that are probably only of interest to me, and possibly a few others. I also have a tendency to say the same things multiple times within the same post. I just word them differently. Usually when I do that, I am doing it to present the information in a way that may make more sense than the first way I tried to explain it.

I think the latter part comes from me being an instructor at my place of employment. I am often working with new employees and at times when I explain how to do something to them, I get a blank stare back in return. They don't understand what I am trying to teach them, because they have no experience with the processes we use, or the machines we make.

Anyhow .... as I said, I know I can go on and on in my posts. And if someone were to mention it, I would do as I am doing now, and readily admit to it. It wouldn't hurt my feelings, because I know I do it. And I get annoyed with myself when I do it. I know those kind of long posts get passed over because they can become tedious to someone that doesn't have the interest that I do in a particular subject. I liken it to giving someone directions on how to get somewhere. You can give them nice easy to follow directions without a lot of details, or you can give them long drawn out directions with a lot of different details. Which set of directions is more likely to get them lost? My experience has been that the more details, the more likely it is to get lost. Give the directions short and sweet, and if someone asks for details, provide them

I also (and I am referencing the referrals to Norman now) would consider someone suggesting that my posts would be more well received if I made them shorter, and more on topic, as that person trying to help me, and not as if they were picking on me. And I certainly wouldn't call them out as if they were trying to silence me, or take away my right to make as long of a post as I want, just to please them. I would do as I am doing now, and understand and acknowledge that I understand that they are trying to help me get my point across. And while I wouldn't have thanked me for the posts I made in this thread, other than my first one, I would have thanked those whose posts were more well intended.

I can see that I am doing it yet again, and running on and on about the same dang thing. I'll say no more on this subject.

And El ...... thanks for defining what TL:DR means. I had no idea.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 04:25PM by David Baylor.

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