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Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 11:45AM

I'm just starting the leap into the rod building hobby. I have a hand wrapper kit and a few other tools to get started. I bought a MHX 6'6" MLF spinning rod kit to get started for a first and practice rod. It came with a concept guide kit ending in size 4. I mainly fish for crappie with a slip bobber and also gigs but will also catch an occasional bass so the MLF should work for both. I have an older Shimano FX 1000 reel
I've been using an old rod to practice wrapping
on as I don't want to mess up to bad on the first rod. I can definitely say there is a learning curve to it. I've read through and looked at i think about 44 pages in the forum before this post. After this first build I'm looking to build 2 more rods for now and I'm possibly looking at Rodgeeks or MHX for those or maybe a Bastion or NFC if I can afford that one all in the 6'6" or 7' range as my rod locker will only hold up to 7'.
My main questions are (1) On the concept guide train for slip bobbers the knot gets hung up in the size 4 that came with the kit and not sure if a 5,6,or 8 would be better for the running guides and top. (2) Would it benefit me to do locking wraps on the guides. (3) I plan on using Fuji guides in the other 2 so which style would be best to go with. I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions as I progress as I'm already enjoying myself and I never new there was so much to learn about fishing rods . Thanks for the input and suggestions as I value your knowledge.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Richard Bowers (---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: November 20, 2022 12:09PM


There are many ways to address the issue of knots and small guides.

First, you may want to try experimenting with the knot itself. There are many proponents of the FG knot, but that may be overkill for lighter freshwater applications, but you may want to consider a Blood Knot or the Uni-to-Uni knot. These are both very low profile knots that pass easily through the guides. It may also be helpful to apply a dab of "Head Cement" to your knot to smooth out your knot's obstructing feature.

Second, you could consider larger guides, ending in a size 6. I do this primarily because I have difficulty wrapping very small guides at my age (71) . An added benefit to increasing the guide size is the learning curve - it is easier to learn the process on larger guides and gradually move up (down?) to the smaller guides. I also recommend new builders begin with double-foot guides to get a feel for the process with less frustration and then move on to single-foot guides as appropriate.

While there are many experts posting in this forum, and many techniques discussed, it is ultimately you that must decide what is right for you. For me, it was Dale Clemons book "Fiberglass Rod Making" that provided the basics. Been using those basics, and a few things I have picked up along the way, for almost 58 years and hundreds oif rods.

Welcome to the addiction!

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 20, 2022 12:32PM

What kind of concept guides are you using? I assume KR concept based on the size of the runners. A size 4 running is most likely too small if using a slip float. For passing a slip float stop knot a size 5.5 or 6 would be better.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 12:37PM

I would think you would be hard pressed to not get just about any knot size through a #6 running guide, though I have used a slip bobber/ slip knot combo on my steelhead bobber rods for a very long time with no issues using a #4 running guide. Are you just feeling the knot or is it stopping the cast?

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 12:59PM

Norman yes I was looking at the KR concept at anglers resource probably the Y guides to start off with. I use the string and tube slip float knot. The kit rod I have will probably be a gigging rod being the size of the top and runners

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 01:04PM

Spencer I have an older rod that has a top close to the kit rod that I was going to use as a slip float rod until I decided to get into rod building an the knot is getting stuck on it and it is just a little bigger than the 4 so I'm guessing it's a 4.5

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 01:08PM

Richard I've never heard of the blood knot yet and not sure what the fg knot is but probably have heard of it just can't remember or not. My eyes aren't the greatest either so a larger guide would be better as the little top is hard to hold being it's so little

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Patrick Noll (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: November 20, 2022 03:02PM

I use 5’s on my panfish rods and fish slip bobbers, no issues. Also use size 5’s on my 15 braid to 10 fluorocarbon FG knots and never have issues.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Ronald Atchley (96.125.236.---)
Date: November 20, 2022 03:10PM

You asked about locking wraps . I believe the subject has been debated here with most folks suggesting the use of locking wraps . I assume you were talking about the Forhan lock wrap . I'm a newbie also so you should take this with a grain of salt but I can't see a good reason not to use a Forhan lock wrap . I can't imagine the few extra wraps of thread and tiny amount of epoxy affecting the function of the blank in any way . I believe it was Tom Kirkman who suggested tying the Forhan lock wrap and then trying to remove the guide . He says you will have to use pliers and the blank will break first .

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 03:28PM

Yes that's the one I was asking about I'm working on practice wraps and trying to learn all I can before I start wrapping on my kit rod. I've already dry fitted the handle,reel seat and fore grip. So before I wrap the new rod I want to get as good as I can so maybe I will make fewer mistakes which I know is going to happen

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 03:36PM

Welcome to the addiction. To avoid (at least reduce) frustration and flatten your learning curve, be patient yet persistent, observant (which includes how-to books and videos as well as closely observing each step while you perform them), ask ANY question (this can be a very helpful site), and most importantly = HAVE FUN!!!
Norman will correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the Y guide(s) you mentioned are used in Fuji’s NGC (New Guide Concept) and not KR Concept. KRC utilizes the high-frame, small ring KL-H reduction guides. Both Concepts can use KB and KT runners. Without getting into different knots, do yourself a favor to make wrapping your first few guides easier by going up in size to 5 or 6; wrapping anything smaller than a size 5 can be difficult (5s are hard enough for me).
“Locking” wraps are never a bad idea and show custom attention to detail. Although I have never experienced a guide pull out, even on store-bought rods, I do it just because I can.
For your other 2 builds, KRC is a proven winner using KL-H reduction guides followed by 2 KBs and then KTs out to a LG tip top. They are offered in 2 frame colors (CC = matte silver, BC = matte gray, and Alconite is the best bang-for-the-buck for the rings). If your size 1000 spin reel is spooled with < 8lb mono, consider KLAG16-H, KLAG8-H, KLAG5.5-M, two KBAG5, KTAG5 out to the LGAT5 tip top (with the correct tube size). Norman is definitely the Fuji Guru and he has already suggested 5.5 or 6 runners for your case = so probably a better choice.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 03:46PM

Thanks for explaining some of the concept, for a newbie it's kinda confusing see I've already made a mistake ????. I also started looking up stuff on the locking wrap to wrap my head around it yes pun intended. There's a lot more info and knowledge than I ever would have dreamed of in building a rod. I'm glad that I'm interested in it and enjoying myself so far. Hopefully it will be a fun and rewarding hobby.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Will Anderson (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 05:05PM

Hey Brad,

I have built the kit you are speaking of. From my experience with both leader knots and slip bobber knots, I would size the 4's up to 5's.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 05:12PM

What did you think of the kit and the blank and it looks like the KR software calls for 16 H,8H and 5.5m's but only if I choose braid and micro with mono and conventional it doesn't give me a size it just says undetermined maybe I need to reload the software any ideas

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2022 05:14PM by Brad Cook.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 20, 2022 05:47PM

What size mono are you planing on using? Using a slip float stop knot with mono up to 8 lb test or braid up 15lb test use KL16H, KL8H, KL5.5M with size 5.5 or 5 KB/KT runners and a matching LG tip top. If not using a stop knot then you can go down to size 4.5 or 4 KB/KT runners. If using heavier mono or braid with a stop knot you can go with KL20H, KL10H, KL6L with size 6, or 5.5 or 5 runners, your choice. If not using a stop knot then could use KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M with any size runner you want from 5.5 to 4. Again, your choice. In all cases, I would use 8 to 9 guides total, which is one or two more than recommended by the KR GPS. If you need help with the guide layout let us know.
I do a locking wrap on all my single foot guides. Probably not really necessary, but it does not hurt and may help. Just a little extra insurance.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 06:10PM

This is one of the things I'm beginning to love about this site. Is the wealth of knowledge and the desire to help anyone understand the whole build process. I'm using 8-10# mono. And I use the pink and yellow knots on the black tubes with the beads. I just found a Fuji video that kinda explained the concept. And then you reply with a really good explanation to make it even easier to understand. Now that it's starting to make more sense to me , sometimes it takes a while. Looks like I just need to decide which size would work better for me given your recommendation oh and color can't forget that one.
I think I'm going to start practicing the locking wrap also. How many wraps are needed for the little extra insurance.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 20, 2022 09:05PM

Here is a library article on doing the locking wrap.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 20, 2022 09:13PM

Thank you that will be really helpful.

Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Richard Bowers (---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: November 21, 2022 10:29AM


A Blood Knot is a very common knot for creating your own tapered leaders for fly fishing applications. There are many YouTube videos showing this line-to-line knot including the following: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0afkYn8vT8)

It is not my favorite line-to-line knot but does create a very slim and compact knot.


Re: Newbie question
Posted by: Brad Cook (---)
Date: November 21, 2022 11:08AM

Thank you for explaining that knot I haven't had time yet to look it up but will definitely do so.

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