When using fluoro on a spinner used for casting less than 1/4 oz lures I've noticed that it does not cast as well as mono. Is there a certain guide train that would help alleviate the problem? I prefer 10# or 12# mono for this application but the fluoro is much tougher and has less stretch which makes it a better choice in some situations.

I think the best guide train would be the Fuji KLH positioned per the KR software on the Anglers Resource site. I'm sure others will recommend Microwaves, but that is not my preference.

It is my opinion that 12 pound test FC is never going to be an easy line to manage on a spinning rod, but maybe premium, very expensive, FC's can do it. I would simply use a premium braid of about 15 pound test with a FC leader about 10 feet long.

Flourocarbon is a bit more stiff than regular mono. We usually only use flouro for our leaders.

I don't go past 10lb on a 3000 reel. The trick is to spool your line on the reel warm because the FC does have memory but it is harder to train. Slightly warming it makes it supple and trainable. I spool by putting the line in a big bowl with warm water and heating it up for a minute or so. Then spool onto the reel out of the hot water. Using the big rolls helps too.

Try P-Line CX Premium, it may give you the characteristics you are looking for, works for me.

Fluorocarbon or monofilament line will never cast as well as braid when using a spinning reel. Even when using the good stuff. If you want to cast further use 8 to 15 # braid with a fluorocarbon or mono leader connected via an FG knot.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2022 10:15AM by Norman Miller.

It isn't that I don't use braid for some applications. I fish mostly speckled trout with a 7' ML mod or fast. These fish have a very tender mouth and lips and easily pull off the hook. The stretch of the mono in combo with the ML rod solves this problem mostly. The fluoro works great on a baitcaster, even for these tender mouths. Would a larger choke guide help? I am currently using a 20 or a 25.

Hey Mark,

I have never had a very good experience with fluorocarbon on a spinning outfit! For one it retains ways too much memory to spool an entire spinning reel. Secondly it is a very heavy line material and that will also affect you casting distance. Even when I have used thinner line diameters on spinning reel with fluorocarbon by high end Japanese manufactures, the casting ability leaves me unimpressed.

Mike & Aaron are correct in saying that fluorocarbon is a stiffer material. I do recommend conditioning your line frequently to avoid having to purchase new spools of fluorocarbon for compromised line. You will notice there may be extra memory or a slight cloudiness to the line. Thats when you know it's time for a new spool! In fact when using fluorocarbon on my bait casters they are backed with a different material. I only spool what I expect to use through the coarse of the day not to waist any expensive line that just sits at the bottom of the spool collection memory and being exposed to the elements. Fluorocarbon is heavy enough that if you spool the entire reel it will slow the revolutions of the spool also affecting casting distance. The weight difference between monofilament and fluorocarbon in the same line diameter is 1.15g/cm3 (mono) and 1.78g/cm3(fluoro). So the line will be more weighted allowing it to fall faster in the water & air!

Spencer made a great recommendation on the P-Line CX Premium. This model does have a fluorocarbon coating and will feel more like monofilament when casting. The issue with all coated lines will eventually wear leaving with with just a copolymer fishing line.

I currently use Bushido Fluorocarbon on my baitcasters. I have nothing to say but amazing things about this fishing line. I still will recommend Microwave guides for spinning rods, but I only use fluorocarbon leader on my spinning outfits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2022 11:06AM by Ancelmo Fernandez.

"Would a larger choke guide help? I am currently using a 20 or a 25."

I don't think so. It's not just getting it through the guides. FC causes other problems as mentioned in the other posts. Having to condition line, heat it to put it on the spool is telling you it's a problem from many perspectives, not just going through the guides. I personally think the stealth advantage of FC is overrated, but I doubt if I will convince anyone.

Just use a long leader on the braid. Try 10 feet of line grade FC and go longer if you think the fish are line shy. Line grade FC probably has more stretch than leader grade. Or use a mono leader. It probably has more stretch than FC, but I think the difference in stretch between the two is less than most people think.

For what you describe I would just give up on using FC. I don't use it for anything but leader. It's too expensive, fragile, hard to manage, a general PIA.

Mark Brassett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It isn't that I don't use braid for some
> applications. I fish mostly speckled trout with a
> 7' ML mod or fast. These fish have a very tender
> mouth and lips and easily pull off the hook. The
> stretch of the mono in combo with the ML rod
> solves this problem mostly. The fluoro works
> great on a baitcaster, even for these tender
> mouths. Would a larger choke guide help? I am
> currently using a 20 or a 25.

I assume you mean "larger butt guide?" The choke would the first of the running guides, which are the smallest guides on the rod.

Assuming you are talking about the butt guide, a larger guide would help, but only if you enlarge all the rest of the guides on the rod as well, which then tends to put you right back where you started. You might gain a bit by not limiting that stiffer line as much, but you give it right back with the extra weight you're hanging on the rod.

..............

I also fish for speckled trout with 1/4 oz jigs and exclusively use braid with a mono or fluorocarbon leader with no problems. With your drag set appropriately, a 7’ ML rod should have a soft enough tip to keep the fish pinned, especially with a mono leader. If you want longer and smoother casts use braid. It’s just that simple. With a 2500 or 3000 size reel filled with 8 to 15 # braid, I use KR concept guides using either a 16 KLH or 20 KLH based reduction train with size 4.5 or 5 KB/KT running guides. Both work great. Love the way these setups cast.
Norm

Norman's setup will cast a "mile."

I always use the 20klh-10klh-5.5m reduction setup except on ultralights to give me a little more flexibility with respect to braid pound test.

I only have 1 heavier spin rod which is used for saltwater Calico and YT; 15-20lb, KL-H25, 4000 series reel spooled with 50lb braid and fluoro leader. Even with 50lb braid, the KL-H guide train casts very nicely. All my other spin rods are ULs, 1-6lb, KL-H16, 1000 - 2000 series reel spooled with 4lb P-Line Fluoroclear. I do not want the hassle of tying leader to braid while trout fishing and the 4lb mono / fluoro is so limp that braid is unneeded.
As stated above, the main concern is a proper and proven guide train and I consider the KL-Hs to be the best. If that is not enough, switch to braid. If that is not enough, try Tom Ks Oddball Reduction Train.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I use fluorocarbon as the main line on all of my spinning gear, and most of my casting gear. The fluorocarbon line you use makes a huge difference in casting performance. After trying many many different brands and models of line over the years,Seaguar Tatsu is by far the best handling and casting fluorocarbon line I have ever used. Especially on spinning gear. I normally use 8# test Tatsu on my spinning gear, but I will occasionally use 10# test. I have Fuji KR concept guide trains on the spinning rods I've built using the 20, 10, 5.5 reduction train that the KR concept software suggests.

I routinely throw small Ned rig baits on 1/16 oz jig heads, and have no problem making 50' casts using 8# test. While that may not be great casting performance to some, it is to me. When I bump up to 10# test, it cuts the casting distance with the bait mentioned, down to about 35' or even a little less. Earlier this year I built a spinning rod for a friend that uses 10# Tatsu exclusively, so I used the 25, 12, 7 guide train that the KR software recommends. That really helped the casting performance with the 10# line. So yeah, going to a larger size KR concept reduction train will definitely help casting distance if you are using 10# test fluorocarbon line.

Spool size plays a major role in the line handling and casting performance of fluorocarbon line on spinning gear, as well. I use 2500 and 3000 size Shimano reels. With the right guide train that size reel is fine for Tatsu up to 10# test. If you wanted to go higher I would be stepping up to a 4000 series reel for the added spool diameter.

As you can tell from the other responses, fluorocarbon line on spinning gear isn't very popular. lol But IMO it has tons of advantages, the least of which, at least to me, is its' purported underwater invisibility. That's just a bonus

Mark,
Really no reason at all to use fluorocarbon as main line on a spinning reel. If you want to use fluorocarbon as main line - use a casting reel. Even on a casting reel, the line will tend to be coiled, but will be somewhat more manageable than using a spinning reel.

If you want tougher line that casts well, just use heavier lb test mono, or a mono like XT which is even larger in diameter for the given lb test. You can tie your hook, lure or bait directly to the mono - or if you insist, just tie on a 5-10 foot fouro leader.

By the way, your statement about line stretch may not be entirely true.

Do a test for your self.

Lets say that you are using 8 lb test.
Take a spring scale and measure off 50 feet of line and then, pull 6 lbs of force on the line - while measuring the stretch of the line.
Test both a common mono that you like to use and also a common 8 lb test Fluoro line that you like to use.

I expect that you will find that the mono and fluoro line either stretch equally, or one or the other may stretch just a bit more.

Also, if you do the sand paper test of rubbing both mono and and the same lb test Fluoro line I think that you will find that the mono line is actually tougher and more resistant to abrasion than Fluoro

[www.youtube.com]

Here is a test of line stretch:
[www.youtube.com]

While I am a huge fan of fluorocarbon line, even on spinning gear, I can certainly understand why there are those that aren't. There are no doubts that even the best handling fluorocarbon lines are less manageable than more supple lines. Especially on spinning gear. So from a line manageability standpoint, fluorocarbon line is going to lose. As far as the testing shown in the videos that Roger linked, well ........... don't let them fool you into thinking that all fluorocarbon lines are the same

The fluorocarbon lines being tested in the videos are far from being premium lines, In fact, one of them has the reputation of being the worst 100% fluorocarbon line on the market. Be that as it may, the major flaw in the testing shown, is that they are testing dry lines. Soak the spools of line in water for a half an hour and then do the testing. The results will be quite different. And that's not to mention the affects that UV rays have on regular mono versus fluorocarbon line.

If you don't like fluorocarbon line, that's fine and dandy. It's not for everyone. But .... and I have said this in other non related threads ........... laboratory test results don't necessarily translate to on the water use. And certainly not in the case testing dry fishing lines.

David,
Absolutely true.
However, for folks who state that fluorocarbon lines have more abrasion resistance and little line stretch - are simply incorrect.

I will agree that there are two differences with fluorocarbon line compared to mono.

Mono tends to float, fluor tends to sink.

Larger diameter mono is somewhat visible under water. Fluor tends to be much less visible.

Other than that - very little difference between mono and fluor. Of course that is perfectly reasonable, since there is little difference in line manufacture between mono and fluoro line - except for a slight difference in materials used in the manufacture of the lines.

As has always been the case, choose and use the line that works for you and helps to put fish in the boat. If 1/2 inch steel cable catches fish for you - by all means use it. If spider web material puts fish in the boat, then use that.

Fishing is an individual and unique activity. Choose and use the tools and materials that work for you to let you enjoy the activity and help you to put fish in the boat - if that is your wish.

I thought spreading misinformation was strictly a biased media thing, or a military tactic kind of thing. I guess not ......

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also fish for speckled trout with 1/4 oz jigs
> and exclusively use braid with a mono or
> fluorocarbon leader with no problems.


At my place in Fourchon the school specks move into the dead end canals in the complex during the fall/winter months. One of my neighbors is Gary Yamamoto. We've fished the "boardwalk" together for the last 15 years. Gary is an excellent angler. He uses exclusively small diameter braid with a fluoro leader on a spinning reel and he has no problem landing school specks. I've tried it several times and always revert back to the 10# -12# mono. Just can't seem to learn this old dog that new trick. Lotsa problems with wind knots and pull-offs on close strikes. Drag issues also. Loose enough to prevent pull-offs sometimes causes lost fish that that rush toward me after the strike. Too tight and they rip their own lip.

I can tell you that all of the serious experienced speck fishermen down here, guides included, use mono on casting and spinning rigs. Its a no contest during the spring/summer months.

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the best guide train would be the Fuji KLH
> positioned per the KR software on the Anglers
> Resource site. I'm sure others will recommend
> Microwaves, but that is not my preference.
>
> It is my opinion that 12 pound test FC is never
> going to be an easy line to manage on a spinning
> rod, but maybe premium, very expensive, FC's can
> do it. I would simply use a premium braid of
> about 15 pound test with a FC leader about 10
> feet long.


^^^ My thoughts exactly