I have enjoyed the threads here on this subject because I can see things from both sides. I have probably broken over 10 rods in my fishing life and only one of them was my direct fault---car door and in a hurry. The other 9 were manufacturers problems, not all defects.
All of the breaks occured in the '80's when I tournament fished more(for bass), not professionally but just for fun. I bought my own equipment and yet, I had a few good days where I won/was given a rod and reel set or two.
But the 9 broken rods breaks down this way: 6 were definitely manufacturers defects, because Berkley told me they were. I bought a replacement worm rod that I really liked but it was just too light and not reinforced in the butt properly. All 6 broke in exactly the same spot--about 6" above the upper hand grip in what should have been the strongest part of the rod. I would ship them the rod, they would ship me back a new one. It finally got to the point that I just got tired of sending them back and found another rod that suited what I wanted to do. They all lasted about 5-10 fish. (I thought the 11th fish example was excellent). Hey, I didnt change until it got to be a hassle because everytime they sent me a new one, Berkley claimed they had the 'problem' resolved. Besides, I was getting a brand new rod everytime and it just happened that I liked the action and feel. I think it is just the same with a high end fly rod. If someone will give me a new one everytime I break a rod, who am I to not take them up on it? I would have to be nuts to not do it. I also agree that when the unlimited warrantees are gone, there should still be a limited warrantee to cover life little boo-boos. I think that could actually help rod builders in that you can offer the same thing....discounted repairs or free as long as you pay a minimal fee up front. Who knows.
Oh yeah, the other 3 rods. One was a very very early graphite from Fenwick which delaminated. You could not see the defect because the rod was heavily painted. It broke on the first fish! It sounded like a gun going off when it broke. One rod had the handle come off in my hands due to a very poor glue job. And the last one broke from what I believe was shipping damage getting to the retail outlet because the break was at a guide but the blank showed signs of having been impacted at that location. Another one that broke on the first fish. Yet, in 9 breaks, I only lost one fish. I did some pretty fancy hand lining but it mostly worked!!!
After building rods, I better understand their limitations and the care that needs to go into their use. I would bang rods around in the past in rod boxes until the paint almost chipped off completely on some. I have had guides just turn loose and inserts jump out of guides. When you buy in the middle to low end of the bass market, you can afford to replace your rods reasonably often, which I did. I would buy 5-6 rods every year. You should have seen what was hanging in the boathouse that had not been used in 10-15 years. I have now recovered some guides and real seats to use for repairs and trashed most of the rest. At $40-$80 a pop per rod, it was not a big deal to do the replacement. However, very few had much of a warrantee and then for only a limited time. I had a very difficult time finding the receipt on that first broken Berkley since keeping receipts is also something I do not do well. If it had been $500, I probably would have kept the receipt in a place where I could find it especially if I knew it had a "lifetime warrantee". And, I definitely would have treated them a lot different than I did. I dont think I have but a couple of fly rods that I still use that I have had more than 10 years. Neither have a lifetime warrantee. The two rods I do have that have this type of warrantee, I built myself and yes I do have the receipts. But if I break it, I eat it. I think there is also a lot of fishermen who eat broken rods if they cause the damage.

After all that rambling, I really do believe that doing away with the warrantees will be a very good thing for us rodbuilders.

Fish hard and stay late,
dave

Stan, very interesting thread. Thanks for bringing it up. I wouldn't be too concerned about stirring up any controversy. I've yet to see anyone get offended or offensive in this group. It's been very interesting to see the different views on this topic.

In doing some more thinking on this, I think that I would find it much easier to replace a rod for a customer who had damaged the rod by accident as opposed to abuse. I recently built a light steelhead rod for a customer. He brought it back after a couple of weeks in three pieces. After talking with him, he finally explained that he had been hung up and placed an incredible amount of pressure on the rod trying to pull loose. He also was using line heavier than the rod was rated for. Needlessly to say, he did not get a replacement rod at no charge. I would have had a much more sympathetic attitude towards him had he fallen and broken it or something of that nature.

Still in all, I agree that doing away with the no fault warranty will not lower rod or blank prices.. But I do believe that it may prevent them from rising as fast in the future.

I'm with you all now but what about the mountain stream fisher that's been wanting to try flyfishing or has been looking forward to his or her retirement and spends several hundreds for a new rod and decides to do a little bushwacking and rock climbing to get to the next pool where the big one might be and unfortunately takes a fall? Does he learn his lesson and stay close to home or worse yet try golfing? Put it another way, how many people paid for a better rod than he needed because it came with a no fault warranty? These guys probably gave up a vacation with their wives to put out an extra couple hundred dollars more for the rod. I have to think this gave us a bigger piece of the pie and the benefits will continue once the warranties are dropped.

I'd be curious to know since the inception of no fault warranties has this in fact decreased or increased custom builders' clientele and average profits. I only know a few professional builders and they all have long waiting lists. Are we biting the hand that feeds us? I don't think so but I think we should at least thank the no fault warranty for getting us the bigger piece of pie. I still think a pro-rated no fault warranty might be a sensible way to go because it should only address learning curve accidents, not constant abuse. Help them out in the beginning and you'll have them for life.

Thanks for the listen. I'm out.

Stan,
Not sure that I agree with you.
I am not bragging, but I have been fly fishing for at least 40 years and - touch wood - have never broken a single rod. I can assure you that I do not "baby" my rods and infact all get a heavy work out with constant fly fishing for game species, mostly salmon. When I purchase a rod I have never taken into consideration the warranty or for that matter the looks of the rod.
All that interests me is how that rod performs on the water. Now that I build my own rods I can take care of the aesthetics.
In the case you describe about the accident prone beginner, I am certain that any reputable manufacturer would replace the rod for a nominal fee. I am also equally certain that the unfortunate angler would be more than happy with this arrangement, when it was clearly his or her fault.
In summary, my opinion is that no fault waranties were introduced as a marketing gimmick and the average angler and the industry has suffered as a consequence.
Just my 2 cents.

There will always be guys who buy according to warranty or price. Usually these are not the clientele that custom builders are after.

Most custom builders are better off looking for that clientele that is interested in getting the most performance possible, without too much regard for price. Obviously, you need to stand behind the product in terms of covering defects and the like, but not necessarily accidents or abuse.

Much in the way of accident or abuse can be aleviated by spending a few minutes with each customer and explaining the proper way to fight and land fish, how to break off snags, properly transport or store rods, etc. A small brochure generated on your computer, with this information within, is a great bit of added value to give your customer when he or she picks up that new rod.

.............

If they do away with them I say that's good news. I consider myself an honest and fair person and stand behind my rods accordingly. I expect honesty and fairness from my customers as well. The unconditional lifetime warranty, in my opinion, is not grounded in honesty and fairness - it's a gimmick. The substitute should be what you typically see as a limited warranty on defects and workmanship, along with a fee for repairs needed due to accidents, abuse, neglect, etc. Taking personal responsibility is part of honesty and fairness. If an angler makes a mistake and breaks his rod, why should everyone else help pay for his mistake. He should pay to get his rod fixed or replaced and move on, without excessive whining (maybe not part of honesty and fairness but a virtue nonetheless)!

I have not read all the posts in detail, but here is my opinion. Warranties are only insurences, so they cost.Normally,you pay an annual fee, but here you pay the whole amout immediately , which can fool people to forget about the costs.
An insurence system should reward people who don´t take advantage of their insurances. How,?E.g. limit the possibility to insure your rod up to say 8 years, If no damage has been done to the rod/blank when that time has passed, you get a premium.
Like someone said, if a progressive decline in the amount that is paid for a broken rod is a condition, then people may not bother using their insurance if the rod is damaged after six or seven years,but wait for their premium instead. This can save up some administation money.
It´s rather unique, that rod companies (seems) to administrate the insurance for their own products, that can force them to think more
of their reputation " they kindly replaced the rod, when they didn´t have to do it", more so than thinking of the rates for the insurances.
My latest blank, bought from David Norwich in Scotland, was possible to buy without any warranty, so I did and got a 15% discount instead!