I'm going to attempt my first build in many many years and I'm trying to get as many ducks in a row as possible before I start ordering components . This build will be a ML power, fast action, 84-86 inch, 13.5-14 inch from butt to front of VSS reel seat hood, used with a Stradic 2500 , 8# braid , and 10-12# FC leader (heavier leader due to use of FG knot) . I plan to use Fuji KLH and KLM for the reduction train and KT for runners but I'm unsure regarding the belly guide(s) . Most of the post I've read here suggest using the KBs but I saw a diagram - [www.fujitackle.eu] - which showed the option of using the KL-L as the belly guide . The text suggested that use of the KL-L would improve the passage of the FG knot and , perhaps , increase casting distance with smaller baits . If anyone has hands on experience with the difference made in using these two different belly guides , I would appreciate you letting me know . But wait !! There's a bonus question . Is there any source available that list heights of the Fuji guides ? These measurements might help in deciding on the sizes for the reduction train guides ??
Thank you .

Ron

The point of the so called "belly" guide is really only to provide a wider base for wrapping at a point where there will be some concentration of force. You will note that the belly guide is just the first runner (choke) guide. If you use the Forhan lock wrap on your single foot guides, this won't make any difference.

...........

[anglersresource.net] for heights. It's on the Anglersresource.net site in the left margin under the Resources listing.

Use the KR software to locate the reduction guides. It simply works. I don't even test cast any more.

Put the first guide about 19-20 inches from the spool lip in its midway position, then the others per the software. For that setup I would use KLH 16 KLH 8 KL5.5M , 2 KB 4's, and 4 KT 4's.

You can go 20-10-5.5 if you want to have the flexibility to up on braid pount test and it will not be a detectable increase in weight or decrease in sensitivity.

I have never used a KL-L for a belly guide and my rods cast just great. I doubt if there really is a difference in passing the FG. If you are not already adept at making good FG's, expect a learning curve with a few failures. I now use the Alberto with two half hitches of the braid tag (seat the knot very firmly then add the half hitche and seat them firmly) added and it works fine with size 4 guides, 15 pound braid and 15 pound FC leader.

A KL-L guide used in the choke (belly guide) position becomes an option when one is doing a conventional build, i.e., not a micro guide build. A conventional build is usually done when using larger reels, and heavier braid or monofilament/ fluorocarbons line. The running guides are usually larger than a size 5, and increased guide sizes also help to pass larger leader knots due to the heavier line. The link you gave did not mention the FG knot it just mentioned leader knots in general. In addition, a KL-L as the choke guide is sometimes used on long (over 9’) moderate action rods. In your case, you aren’t doing either a convention build or building a long moderate action rod that bends deep into butt of the rod, so do a micro build. You can use either a KL16H based (16H, 8H, 5.5 M), or a 20H (29H, 10H, 5.5M) reduction train. With a 2500 reel with 8# braid and a 12# leader, I would opt for a 16H based reduction train, but that’s your choice. Both will work extremely well. I would follow the reduction train with one or two KB running guides, with the remaining running guides being KT guides. I would use nine, or, at most, ten guides total, not counting the tip top. If you need help with a tentative guide layout, let us know.
Norm

Ronald,
Michael and Norman offered excellent advice and they coincide with each other. You may not receive any more replies because Norman really is the Fuji KR Guru. I learned from Norman so obviously I agree as well. The only modification to the KR setup I use is simply personal preference = I use as many KBs as the blank diameter will allow. The wider foot of the KB vs the KT may be too wide for small diameter tip sections (ultralights), in which case I use the KTs. I prefer the confidence afforded by the stouter KB and accept the infinitesimal weight gain.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mr. Kirkman,
Thank you very much . I have bookmarked instructions on how to do the locking wrap . That along with the drop of epoxy in the tunnel as shown in your book should work well . And , yes , I believe it is you that I have to thank ( or is it blame ) for my being down this wonderous rabbit hole . I bought your book and have read it so many times that I can quote you chapter and verse .
Thanks again.

Ron Atchley

Mr. Danek ,
Thank you very much for the link and your excellent advice . I thought I had searched anglersresource from top to bottom but I still didn't find the guide information . I am getting much better with the FG but , like you say , it takes practice . Still , I have an irrational neurosis about the knot banging on the guides with smaller baits . Do you think there would be any functional / noticeable loss if I went with size 4.5 KTs rather than the 4s ? I know they are at the end that matters most but am I deluding myself in thinking that 0.5 mm in 5 titanium torzite guides wouldn't totally spoil the party ? Honestly , if you say it would make a difference , I'll go with the 4s . I respect your opinion .
Thanks again .

Ron Atchley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2022 07:09PM by Ronald Atchley.

Mr. Miller ,
Thank you very much .I will certainly take your advice and use the KBs . Even with the KBs , I think I'll use the locking wrap Mr. Kirkman suggested . I've only built 2-3 rods - old Fenwick glass blanks - and that was at a time when graphite rods had only been introduced for 2 or 3 years . Today it's a whole new ball game and there is such a great deal to learn .
Thank you again . Advice from someone with your knowledge is invaluable .

Ron Atchley

Mr. Taimo ,
Thank you very much for taking time to help me . I've read several of your post on this forum and learned a great deal from them . I will order at least one extra KB as you suggest . I don't believe the build I'm thinking of would be considered ultralight and you are correct in that , if there is no perceptible loss , the added security in that area would be the way to go . A win win situation .
Thank you again .

Ron Atchley

In my opinioin you will never notice a difference between 4 and 4.5 runners. We tend to overthink this stuff.

Ron, I use a locking wrap on all my single foot guides. It has just become a habit with me. It’s very quick and easy to do, and secures the guide quite well. Can’t think of a down side for using one.
With the line and leader you will be using you won’t feel the FG knot passing through the guides when casting, even down to a size 4 runner. I mostly use size 4.5 or 5 KB/KT guides and the FG knot passes smoothly without any problem. Because of the way the FG knot is tied there is no tag end in front of the knot allowing it to pass smoothly though the guides without catching. The special thing about the FG knot Is.that not only is it the thinnest leader knot but also one of the strongest. I’m a kind of a knot nerd, and have used almost all the various leader knots there are. In my opinion, the FG knot is the best. It takes some practice and a little more time to tie correctly, but it’s worth it to me.
Norm

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We tend to overthink
> this stuff.

Yep . Your right . But ain't it a hoot :) Many thanks .

Mr. Miller,
Good advice as usual . Locking wraps on everything would not only be more secure but might be better esthetically as well ?? I think I'll go with 4.5 runners because of my neurosis - the only reason I don't think I'll go to 5s is that so many knowledgeable people have suggested 4s . While i have been practicing with the FG knot , I developed an experimental technique involving a micro thin coating of Loon glue on just the ends of the knot - not as a substitute for proper technique but as an experiment . At the very least it seems to eliminate the fuzzy tag end of the braid and I can tell no difference in strength or smoothness through the guides . Back when I was young and frisky , I lived on a sailboat for a few years and developed a love of knots . Perhaps the fascination with knots is not quite as nerdy as you think :) At one time , I pondered how a constrictor knot might be used as a braid to leader option but life got in the way and I didn't pursue it .
Thanks again .

Ron Atchley

Ronald,
“At one time , I pondered how a constrictor knot might be used as a braid to leader option but life got in the way and I didn't pursue it”. You were onto the FG knot before you may have realized it!!! It is THE only line-to-leader knot I use = strongest and slimmest = can’t improve on perfection!!!
Guide locking thread wraps are certainly a benefit and do not require much additional time to produce; additionally, such wraps are an indication that the builder took the time and effort to go above-and-beyond the other status quo builders. I developed a method which actually LOCKS the guide inplace rather than simply RESTRICTING pull-out like the Forhan, but I was left feeling like walking into Sunday church services naked. So-be-it and to-each-their own. Although I have never experienced guide-pull-out, one way or the other, a “locking” if not simply a “restrictive” thread wrap for guides is certainly not a bad thing.
Choose 4s if you want but I see no need to go below 5s. Tiny 5s are difficult enough for me to wrap (threading line through the guides on the rod as well) and even tinier 4s may make me consider basket weaving instead.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Good Morning Mr. Talmo ,
If you don't mind , I would like to read about your method of locking guides into place . At the very least , anything that would give a man the feeling you described would be interesting :)

Ron Atchley

Mark:
I would also like to hear about your locking system...
Post or email me the thread link?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2022 09:03AM by Chris Catignani.

You can,t pull out a forhan ?ocked guide without breaking something..how much more secure can you get.

Depending on how the thread and the guide foot "fit up" when I get there in the wrap, I might not do the Forhan "blocking" wraps. I don't think they are necessary, and what I end up with has worked very well. My three loops around the ring seem sufficient, and what I end up with has no visual difference from having no locking feature. I had one rod get hooked up onto my trolling motor shaft and when I got it untangled three guides were bent, but none pulled out. KT's with the small foot.

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can,t pull out a forhan ?ocked guide without
> breaking something..how much more secure can you
> get.

Just for the sake of argument...
Until someone can show me that one wrap technique can withstand X amount of pounds of pull vs another...its just a theory.
I've never had an eye pulled out of a non-Forhan wrap.
I have seen eyes pullout out of other rods and have put a drop of super glue on it and shove it back in.
If you dont use color preserver and use epoxy as a finish...your good.
I do think a blocking wrap or a wrap like Mick uses is probably better...but how much better?

I have fished Delaware Mill pond from a belly boat, kick boat or sculling a small bass Hunter and just flipping cover..my rods spent a lot of time in the water poking to free lures..guides would get caught and pulled out until the forhan locking wrap, best invention since the metal fish hook..lol.