It's been a minute since I last posted. Really struggling with 2 items. The first is the guide spacing.

I am building 2 different rods, both are St. Croix SCV blanks
Currently trying to build the 7.0 Rod - SCV70MF

The guide train is built as follows
Tip is a Fugi KG Torzite Titanium 5 4.5 (1.8mm), then 2 Fuji K-Series single foot Belly model KB size 5, followed by 6 Fuji K-series single foot model KT size 5, then 1 Fuji K-series double foot KW 5.5, and last the same guide except size 10.
I used this link [www.in-fisherman.com] here to get the general guide layout and then attempt to do a static test from there to fine the guide placement. Problem is I'm having trouble keeping the guide attached to the rod enough to fine tune and tweak the placement. The guide just comes right out of the guide tubing. Under a small load they kind of stayed in place and I think I have the spacing right, but I'm not 100% confident.

The second issue I'm running into now is attaching the guides. I just can't seem to get the tension right. I've managed to get 1 guide completely attached, went to the second guide, got the first side wrapped and went to wrap the back side and in the process I bumped brushed the front wrapping so much that the wrap completely undid itself and the guide fell off and now im faced with getting the guide placed correctly again and attached enough to wrap. Because of this I'm not entirely confident that my first guide wont unwrap itself once I get to the applying epoxy part.

Really struggling to get these 2 rods done and fishing season starts end of this month. I was envisioning having both rods completed by now. The only part I have completed with success is the fighting butt and reel seat along with the wind checks. Looks fantastic, but the rod is useless without the guides and tip.

Needing some advise and suggestions. I knew this wasn't going to be easy, but admittedly, this is not the area I thought would get me stuck.

Your 2 KB's should be between the KW5.5 and the KT5's, not at the tip of the rod; they have a wider foot to cope with load in the mid section of the rod:

KW10 KW5.5 KB5 KB5 KT5 KT5 KT5 KT5 KT5 KT5 KG5.

More thread tension - are you finding the (taped in position I assume) guides are being pushed away by the thread? whcih then makes you wrap with less tension?

Tony,
First of all, relax. You are on the uphill part of the learning curve and shouldn’t expect it to be all smooth sailing!!! From your description, I would give 10-to-1 odds you are using a SINGLE line static load test rather than a 2-LINE static load test. Secure the tip top as you see fit and attach your weight to the tip top. Run a SECOND LINE (THREAD) through the guides with only enough weight dangling off the tip top to straighten it. The result is virtually no tension on the guides while allowing the blank to assume its natural flex curve = a win-win!!! With a single-line static load test, weighting a line passing through the guides can influence an UNNATURAL flex curve of the blank.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

The two line test procedure that Mark recomomends is at anglersresource.net, link in the left column.

Since the line through the guides doesn't load the blank the guides will stay on better and they can be moved without unloading the blank.

The difference in placement is most likely minor, but the ease with which they can be located is a game changer.

I agree with Brandon on where the KB's go. If I were building it I would add a couple more KB's in place of the mid-rod KT's.

I agree with the others about where the KB guides are placed, and using the two line static test. As Brandon mentioned you are getting loose wraps because you are forced to use less tension when climbing the toe of the guide. This is because when you use more tension the guide is pushed forward by the thread tension making it difficult to get the thread to climb up the toe of the guide. Thus, you need to prevent the guide from moving forward when wrapping. If using a piece of narrow tape to hold the guide in place, make sure it is tight. You can make a couple of wraps behind the guide forming a small dam of tape which will help prevent the guide from sliding forward. If using a small rubber band to hold the guide in place, then use a smaller one to give a tighter fit, or put another rubber band or a tape dam behind the guide. You can also use the Flex guide low melt guide cement, it works quite well and prevents the guide from moving. Another thing that may help is to just roughen up the toe of the guide with a small diamond fingernail file. This will give the thread a little more bite when climbing the toe. Also make sure you are not pulling the tie off loop into the thread tunnel on the sides of the guide, because there will be very little tension holding the tag end in place.
I don’t like spacing charts, they don’t take into account the length of your handle or the flex of the rod. I would place the butt/stripper guide about 20” in front of the reel and place the running guide next to the tip top no closer than about 3.5”. Progressively place the remaining guides between them, and do the static test to fine tune the placement. In my opinion, a casting rod is easier to layout than a spinning rod. I have built the SCV70MF before and the 10 guides you have should be more than sufficient.
Norm

Good insight and advice, as usual from Norman.

Another tip to wrapping tiny guides like KT/KB's that might help is to wrap to the foot of the guide, then go past the foot, up onto the foot with about 3 or 4 wraps, leaving a gap to the foot tip, then pack the threads down towards the foot closing the gap. And continue the wrap.

You are going to love that rod built on that blank.

Tony,
2 things.

For myself, I prep every guide that I wrap by making the end of the foot, virtually razor sharp. By doing this, there is never any issue with the thread not climbing the guide foot.

Also, when I prep the guides I use a belt sander that sands across the face of the guide foot leaving perpendicular scratch marks across the guide foot, which essentially hold the thread in place as the guide foot is being wrapped.


With respect to tension:
For myself, I use enough tension on the guides, so that when I go to adjust the angular orientation of a guide foot, it requires both thumbs to move the guide foot around the rod blank for its final alignment.

I have never ever had an issue with a rod blank by putting too much tension on the wrapping thread to hold the guide in place.

By doing these two things - i.e. prep the guide foot to be very thin at the end of the guide foot, and use enough tension, so that it is very difficult to move the guide foot in any direction will take care of your issues.

Here is a picture of the belt sander and the guide holding fixture that I made to prep a guide.

I use different size holding fixtures, by using smaller and larger machine screws that go inside the ring of the guide. By having a machine screw run through the inside of the guide ring, then run through a piece of rod blank and cut to the right length so that about 2 turns of a wing nut will hold the guide tight - make quick work to prep a guide foot.

I typically use a 220 grit belt used on the sander to do the work. It typically takes about 15 seconds per guide to prep a guide foot using this method.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

The belt sander came from Harbor freight and gets used virtually every day for one job or another around the shop.

I have sanding belts with grits ranging from 40 grit to 1200 grit, to have the right belt on hand to do the needed job.

[www.harborfreight.com]

A few different grit sanding belts:
[www.harborfreight.com]

Here are other sanding belts from Home Depot:
[www.homedepot.com]

Here are 1x30, as well as 1x42 inch belt sanders from Home Depot:
[www.homedepot.com]

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For my own shop, I use a 1x30, a couple of 1x42, and a 4x36 inch belt - bench top sander - depending on my need to remove material from something.

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Summary-
Prep the guide foot.
Use lots of thread tension when wrapping a rod.

Take care

So I wanted to post an update based on the provided advise. I'm glad I decided to start over. So I used the [www.johnnyspond.com] placement as a starting point this time. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure it it improved my starting point all that much. I would probably say it made it worse being that it only maps out 9 instead of 10, so I had to go back and add the more guide tubing and add an additional guide. Despite that, follow the 2 line approach for the static testing and placement worked a lot better. I was able to put the pole under a load and then just add a bolt and washer to the line to keep the line tight. No amount of adjust the guides keeps the line off the blank. I would probably have to add more guides, but that probably isn't the goal. Through placement I was able to keep the line either off the blank completely or touch the blank. At no point does the line go past the center of the or wind up past the top of of the blank, which I believe is the goal.

I noticed when I listed by guide placement that I listed them in order on how they showed in my mudhole order, not the actual placement on the pole. The guides flow largest to smallest from main/base guide all the way down to the tip.
The guide placement ended as follows. I used metric as is tends to be more precise and accurate. The measurements are based from the tip and the most forward point of the tip. I don't know if that is the proper way to measure the guide spacing, but I would assume as long as I follow the same measuring rules from front to back. The placement will end the same.

Starting from the guide tip and increasing in total measurement, not distance between guides is as follows
Guide 1 - 7.5cm
Guide 2 - 14.7cm
Guide 3 - 21.1cm
Guide 4 - 28.2cm
Guide 5 - 35.2cm
Guide 6 - 44.8cm
Guide 7 - 55.8cm
Guide 8 - 67.8cm
Guide 9 - 92cm
Guide 10 - 125cm

Hopefully I can get the guides actually wrapped and then apply epoxy.

You need not crank down hard on the first wraps which cover the guide feet - just make sure the thread is taut and tightly packed together. As you wrap up the guide foot toward the guide ring you can increase thread tension, but don't go wild. That guide with all those wraps isn't going to move around and go anywhere, unless a car door or a tree or . . . [BTW: Is your guide spacing optimized for monofilament or braid, nylon or fluorocarbon? ]

SMH ............. line type has absolutely NOTHING to do with static guide placement.

As far as getting the thread to climb the tip of the guide foot, did you prep the guides at all? I don't find that I need any additional prep for the KB or KT guides, but I do with the KW's or if a spinning rod, the KL's. I file them to a much shallower angle than the factory has them at.

Some guides, not Fuji's so much, need quite a bit of guide foot prep. I wanted guides with black frames for the build I am finishing up right now, so because Fuji no longer offers a black finish, I had to use a different brand. I ended up using the CRB Lazer high frame guides from Mud Hole. Nice enough guides, but they needed a lot of foot prep to get them ready to wrap. At least in my opinion they did. To me foot prep makes a big difference in how easy guides with thicker feet are to wrap.

And Norman is spot on with his suggestion of adding some texture to the ramp with a fine file. It helps me immensely.

Don't forget that for spinning rods the diameter of the reel spool must be considered in the placement of the first guide to achieve the smoothest, least restrictive passage of any line.