I am currently trying to research and find out as much about the process and How to find out how to select the right components for a rod build. I want to build a 6’10’ or close to that length medium light dropshot rod. I have been searching this forum and think I have the guide selection and how to space them figured out. I assume tip top is same size as runner guides for ring diameter. Is there any specific rules for selecting the right reel seat as far as size besides it being able to fit over blank or is comfort what you are looking for in the size of the reel seat.
My current selections so far are.
MHX 6’10” Med-Light Drop Shot Blank DS822
Fuji Deluxe Graphite Spinning Reel Seat size 16
Fuji KL16H, KL8H,KL5.5M, KT4.5 runner guides
CRB 2-Tone Split Grip Kit for spinning rods
I am planning to use 1000 size shimano spinning reel with 6# fluorocarbon. I plan to buy a starter kit for the tools until I learn what I need better. Is there anything else I need to have to start my first rod build. I am just starting to learn about all this and seems to be a lot to learn. I also want to now if you think I should maybe do a kit or different build first to learn the ropes of rod building

With your guides already selected, I would say you don't need an all in one kit. You are already good there. The builders start up kits like this one, [mudhole.com] will get you into the game at an entry level. I started from there and upgraded as my skills improved and my passion accumulated. I now run an Alps power wrapper and upgraded tools across the board. However, I still use all of the items from that kit as well.

For your tip top just be sure not to confuse the tube size and the ring size. I am pretty sure almost everyone has done that at least once. HAHA

A.P.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2022 02:05PM by Aaron Petersen.

Andrew,
Welcome onboard. Be careful, though, as rod building can become a journey to “The House of the rising Rod” ( a spoof on a vintage song).
Congratulations on doing such a thorough job with your homework / research. While kits can certainly be a good idea for some just starting-out, as Aaron mentioned you apparently know what you want and have basically made good component choices. Although there are many different component manufacturers out there, no one can say that anything Fuji is not top-notch.
As for your questions / assumptions; 1. The tip top ring size is TYPICALLY the same as the runners although there is no law saying it must be. I have had to use a different ring size due to the available tube size needed. Do not rely only on listed blank tip dimensions to determine what tube size to order = request the supplier to “fit” the tip top to the blank. With your (very good) choice of KR Concept guides, a LG tip top would be a perfect choice. Allow me to suggest that you use larger runners and tip top = 4.5s are tiny and more difficult to wrap; 5.0, 5.5, even 6.0 might make wrapping your first rod less frustrating and more enjoyable. 2. While “minimalist” builders may use a size 16 seat to save 2 or 3 grams, most find a 16 too small and uncomfortable = a 17 may be a better choice. Again, there is no law regarding seat size either. If your hands are junk like mine, an 18 may be better still. Hard foam arbors / spacers are difficult to beat = lightweight, easy to ream. 3. A starter tool kit will do just that, get you started. Most people will quickly discover the benefit of adjustable tension for the thread and rotational tension for the blank as well. Don’t forget to consider sizing (as in reaming) the grip(s) and seat to fit the blank. Although a bit costly, a set of tapered reamers will prove invaluable and will allow you to fit components to the blank more precisely, easily and quickly than a rat-tail file (sorry Roger). 4. You are correct = there is a lot to learn. I consider it to be just one of the intriguing aspects of rod building. This site WILL flatten your learning curve immensely if you simply look, listen, ask and apply. There are many veteran rod builders here graciously willing to share their knowledge and wisdom.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I can certainly understand Mark's concern with using 4.5's as running guides for a first time guide wrapper. They are small and can be frustrating. With that said, as long as you are aware that they may present some initial difficulty, I wouldn't shy away from them. In my estimation, wrapping a size 5 isn't much different than wrapping a 4.5. I wouldn't go with a 6 as a running guide. The weight difference between a 4.5 and a 6 is enough to show up in the performance of the rod. Especially on a lighter powered rod, like you're building.

I notice you don't have a KB guide in your guide train. The KB has a wider foot and would be the guide to use as the first guide up from your final reduction train guide. Also, because you're using fluorocarbon line (a question about that coming later) I would go with a 5.5 KB as your choke guide. I use fluorocarbon line as the main line on all of my spinning gear, and because it's more stiff than braid or nylon mono filament, I think the larger guide helps with the line turning the corner. But that's up to you.

The question about fluorocarbon line. Can I ask which line you plan on using? And have you used fluorocarbon line as the main line on spinning gear before? The reason I ask is, as I said, I use fluorocarbon as the main line on all of my spinning gear, and have been doing so for at least 10 years. I started out using it on a 2000 Shimano Symetre reel. Pretty small diameter spool, and I found it didn't work very well at all. I was using Seaguar InvizX at the time. What I have discovered over the years is that spool diameter plays a big role in how well fluorocarbon line handles on spinning gear. Most of my spinning reels are 3000 series Shimano's, because I mistakenly thought that their spool diameter was larger than a 2500 series reel. I recently picked up a 2500 series Vanford and in measuring the empty spool, I found that it's diameter is slightly larger than a 3000 series spool. What I am saying is, you may want to consider a reel that has a larger diameter spool. I use Seaguar Tatsu now, and even though it is the best handling fluorocarbon on spinning gear that I have found, it's still more stiff than a supple nylon mono.

As far as reel seat, I personally would go with a 17 just for the added diameter adding a bit of comfort. A little bit heavier reel seat isn't going to kill you.

Otherwise, I'd say you are well on you way to building a nice rod.

First thing: Buy a rod kit with the equipment you'll need. I got mine from Mudhole. This will help you can get most of the learning curve out of the way.

I generally use 10# power pro hi vis braid to leader but this rod I plan on using for drop shot and some other finesse applications like float and fly not sure braid will be a good option. I am not opposed to going slightly bigger on the reel the vanford is actually the reel I plan on using with this rod. I generally use sunline fc sniper for my flourocarbon any advice is appreciated

I think I will measure a couple of the reel seats on spinning rods I like the feel and use that to determine size of reel seat. David so you are saying to use a 5.5kb as my choker guide then go to the kt's for runners

I would use 2 size 5 KB's (choke + 1) and the rest 4.5 KT's to a 4.5 tip.

David made a good observation, which I missed, in that no KBs were included. Whatever size is decided upon, 1 or 2 KBs should be included as per typically done. I take that a step further and include as many KBs as the blank diameter allows, favoring the robustness of the larger foot compared to the KTs. The larger foot is also easier to wrap. Yes, it comes with a hair-splitting weight gain but is well worth the minimal sacrifice. The same applies to the ring size, and a larger ring is MUCH easier to thread line through; the older I get, the better I saw lol.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

You want to use the KBs on the thicker section of the rod after your last reduction guide and the KTs on the thinner tip section, usually 3 KTs from the tip top. I have used all KTs without issue because they didn't have them or I ran out of KBs. If you want to be sure they stay on, you can use a locking wrap. Make sure you do a few wraps in front of the legs of the KH guides because most of the time the epoxy will crack there when flexed a little and the thread in front of the leg will stop it from happening. You got this, don't be afraid to start out using micro guides, you will figure it out.

I am glad I came here and asked questions before I ordered anything this will save my so time and frustration figuring things out. Definitely slot to learn but all the advice helps a lot in not making component mistakes then all I have to worry about is not making mistakes building the rod. I like to build things myself. I reload my own rifle and shotgun shells and make my own jigs and skirts and tie my own flies for fly fishing so I think rod building will become more of an obsession eventually even though I don't know if I will get into artistic side or but more about performance to me.

Couple of thoughts on the build. I'd certainly go with a bigger seat but you need to make sure the reel seat mates with the handle kit. The two tone handle kit uses rubberized cork so it is going to weigh more. I'd spend the extra money and go with the G2 kit in carbon and the Aero seat. And yes, add a KB or two guide. But those are minor things and you might not agree.

You mention reloading and there are parallels. The classic Lee loader will make ammo equal to (or better) a Dillon. Just won't do it as fast. Right now fast might not be in your best interest. So don't rush out and buy some starter kit with a bunch of stuff the will end up in the garbage down the road.

Take a look at the Flex Coat hand wrapper and ask yourself if you can make one. A cup and a book has been used by many a rod builder for thread tension. Point is there isn't much you need to buy to get started.

I'd suggest you make your first build a re-do of a favorite rod. Convincing yourself you can improve on the performance of a factory rod inspires confidence.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I must say that Russell’s comment,”...make your first build a re-do of a favorite rod. Convincing yourself you can improve on the performance of a factory rod inspires confidence” is great, well stated advice. Good one Russell.
Andrew,
It should already be obvious that there is a plethora of opinions, ideas, methods, products, new and old within the rod building craft. While there may rarely be a wrong suggestion, each individual builder needs to examine as many aspects as possible and then decide which ultimately works best for them. If YOU like it, it’s good; if YOU don’t like it, it’s not quite as good.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Your first running guide is the choke guide. Don't go overboard with a bunch of different sizes. You need a butt guide, perhaps two intermediate guides and then the choke/running guides to cover the additional length. You'll likely be able to get by with a total of about 9 guides plus tiptop.

You may find this helpful - [www.rodbuilding.org]

.........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2022 04:18PM by Tom Kirkman.

Andrew, you will love the Vanford. In case you aren't aware, it's the Stradic Ci 4, with some upgrades. It is feather light and smooth as silk, and IMO will not feel or look out of place. If I remember correctly, the 2500 Vanford weighs 6.4 oz.

And yes, I meant a 5.5 KB as your choke guide, and then the rest KTs. As far as my choice of the 5.5 goes, I have no real data to support using a 5.5 over a 5 or a 4.5 as the choke guide. I've built rods both ways, and can honestly tell no difference. I just started using a 5.5 as the choke guide because of my belief that it would work better with a stiffer line.

That belief, in part, came from viewing the diagram in the KR concept software off the Angler's Resource web site. If you're using that software, you'll notice that it references a diagram of how the guides should bullseye. And they suggest moving the choke guide out a bit so it looks like the drawing. Stating that it helps the line turn the corner. ,Using a 5.5 as the choke guide, I don't have to move the choke guide out, because it's a taller guide. The KR concept was designed with braided line in mind. If a supple line like braid needs help turning the corner, then surely a stiffer fluorocarbon line needs that same help. Anyhow ........ that's what has me using a 5.5 instead of a 5 or 4.5.

And Sniper is a very good line. I used it for a couple of years, and had I not tried Tatsu just for the sake of trying it, I'd still be using it today. IMO Tatsu isn't markedly better than Sniper, but I think it's better. The question is, does the difference in performance justify the difference in price? For me it does.

And if you do decide to go with a 2500 over the 1000, put your numbers into the KR GPS again. I use 10 - 14# mono when I input line size. It will most likely kick out a reduction train of a KL- 20H, KL- 10H, and a KL 5.5M. That is the reduction train I have on all of my spinning rods. I use either 10 or 8# Tatsu on them. Just something to consider.

Oh and one final thing. If you have never drop shot with fluorocarbon as your main line, be prepared for line twist. If I spend a day fishing a drop shot, I am dragging the line behind the boat to get the twist out, at least once, if not twice in a days fishing. If I didn't catch so many fish on a drop shot, I'd probably stop using it ,simply because of the line twist inherent in the technique.

I guessing you would use size D thread starting out. Any preference on colorfast or regular nylon thread. And roughly how much thread do I need to have for a basic build don't mind buying extra but want to make sure I get enough so don't run out and have to match the color.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2022 04:59PM by Andrew Hews.

Use A thread unless you have vision or hand dexterity problems. Any size spool will be way more than needed for one rod.

Black (and metallic) is the only regular thread that retains it's color. Everything else becomes translucent and changes color (darker). That isn't bad thing but you need to be aware of it. If that is important your choice are colorfast or CP.

What I would suggest depends on the color. Have you made a choice?

Colors I like to have on hand....silver and gold metallic.....black, garnet, purple in regular nylon....white in NCP/Colorfast.

Be advised certain colors are known to fade really fast.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Andrew,
I agree (and think most will also) that size A thread is a better choice. Yes, D may be easier to wrap but only marginally so and A simply looks better on lighter rods = less definition of each wind. But I use D on my 50lb+ saltwater rods; even if not really required, it IS stronger. I use NCP (colorfast) thread because I do not care for CP (color preserver). It adds cost, requires an extra step and cure time, but most importantly, I prefer to have the epoxy all the way to the blank. Many say NCP does not have the “sheen” that regular nylon does, but I prefer as little flash as possible for my trout rods anyway. Size, type and brand of thread is a personal choice and all are good; experiment until you find what turns your crank. I have never actually counted, but would guess that a 100yd spool will wrap a minimum of 5 rods, maybe even 7 or 8. I always purchase the medium-size, 650yd spools because they are considerably cheaper per yard. One can never have a large enough selection of thread. Just when you become rather proud of your inventory, the next build or repair may find you buying a new color.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

There is nothing wrong with using size D thread. It is much easier to wrap, climbs the guide toe well, easier to pack, with less gaps and less crossovers. Once it is coated with epoxy it’s very difficult to tell a difference. Plus the difference in weight is extremely small and is measured in milligrams. For a beginner it’s a good choice. If you are doing trim wraps size A works best, even with D thread for the main wrap. If you want something more intermediate try size B thread, it is also easier to wrap than A, and looks good. Concerning NoCP versus regular thread, it is basically a personal choice. I personally don’t like NoCP thread for the main wrap, just looks too flat to me with no sparkle or depth. I use it only for trim wraps because of the contrast it gives. I like the looks of regular thread with no CP, it becomes darker and more translucent. If you want to maintain the color of regular thread then use CP. For a beginner one of the most frustrating part of wrapping is getting the the wraps to lie nice and even next to each other with no gaps or crossed over threads, so use a thread that will enhance your chances of getting a good looking wrap, with minimal frustration.
I have no problems with you rod or guide selections, although I would use one or two KBs after the reduction train. I like split grips, and whether you use a size 16 or 17 reel seat is your choice. I like IPS and VSS seats because they are hand filling, comfortable, and look good, but they do take a little extra care putting them together. For a reel seat arbor I like using polyurethane foam arbors. I glue them in the reel seat, let cure, and then ream to fit the blank. As fas as tools are concerned, buy or make a reamer set. Just my thoughts and opinions.
Norm.

I can't offer any rod building suggestions but can offer line advice. Have you ever tried fluorocarbon on a small spinning reel. It's much more springy than mono. Don't buy a big spool.