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What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Stan Daubinawski
(---.sub-174-250-20.myvzw.com)
Date: January 14, 2022 06:11PM
I just finished my first rod build. A Bass Kang Power Noodle. (Its definitely not as good looking as others I have seen) I did learn a lot and hopefully can do better next time.
I found the information on Gen4 Epoxy I used for the Rod guides and its states:" Fishable after 24 hours, but we recommend 48 hours to allow for full crosslinking". I would like to use it this weekend at a fishing outing but it will only have about 36 hours to dry(I did have the room temp at 75 degrees vs 70 on bottle) what problems would this cause if I used it prior to waiting the recommended 48 hours? Thanks Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2022 08:15PM by Stan Daubinawski. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: January 14, 2022 06:49PM
Essentially the maker is asking you to wait for a full cure before using it. Yes, you can speed up the set and cure time by keeping the rod in a warmer place. For every increase or decrease of 10F from about 70F, you will halve or double the cure time.
At 36 hours you may be fine. Test the finish. Is it tacky? Try a thumbnail test (don't go overboard) and see how easy it is to slightly dent the finish. You should be able to tell if the finish if firm enough to use or whether it would be better to give it another day. Try to keep the rod in the warmest room in your home in the meantime. ................. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Stan Daubinawski
(---.sub-174-250-20.myvzw.com)
Date: January 14, 2022 07:54PM
Thanks for the information Tom.
I will try the methods that you have stated to see if its good to go. (I did keep the epoxy dish I used to check first). I guess the safest bet is to temper my excitement and wait a little bit before taking it out for its maiden voyage. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Kent Griffith
(---)
Date: January 17, 2022 08:26AM
For anyone interested in a technical read on epoxy crosslinking here is a link:
[www.masterbond.com] "The origin of this crosslinking process occurs when linear polymer chains link to form a three dimensional network (See Figure 1)1. The resultant crosslinked polymer network is defined by the crosslink density, which is essentially the number of effective crosslinks per unit volume. Polymers with a high crosslink density typically cure fairly rigid, and offer good structural strength, while polymers with a low crosslink density, tend to be more flexible. This might be useful in applications requiring lower stress." One issue I see in the industry is that epoxy brands or manufacturers don't always make it clear where their epoxy product stands in the scale of hardness or softness, or rigidity or flexibility. I try and steer clear of hard, brittle epoxies because they tend to crack and develop spaces between the epoxy and rod blank where dirt can get in as well as water. Until this thread I was not familiar with this term crosslinking in epoxy. I assumed it had something to do with the layering of epoxies coatings and how well or not they "crosslink" into the lower coating. If an epoxy is allowed to fully cure before the next coat, then crosslinking adhesion is minimal. But if the lower coating is still tacky when the top coat is put on, there is a lot more crosslinked adhesion going on between coatings, and this is another situation I aim for if using more than one coat together and I can see why a full cure before use is requested. Something I was not aware of until reading the technical details is this one: "if one were to cure a one component heat curing epoxy at 175° C for 1 hour, versus 125° C for 1.5 hours, the Tg and physical strength properties will most likely be higher with the higher temperature cure." I am not sure how large of a temperature swing it takes for a noticeable difference, but let's consider the possibilities... men who build rods up north in the dead of winter may have cooler temps in rod building rooms, while down in Florida if I make a rod in say the garage in middle of the summer, and we all use the same epoxy, according to the technical report, the curing strength of the epoxy will be stronger in Florida in summer than those made in cooler temps in the winter. Now, the amount of strength deviation may not even be noticeable as far as fishing rods go, but it is interesting to consider this. And I wished the technical report had elaborated more on this: "Not only is curing at the right temperature important, it is also critical to follow the right sequence in terms of temperatures." I'll be honest and say that I never really cared to bother with temperature adjustments for rod building. I did use thermal changes for aluminum boats though as old tin boat experts have shared with me a nifty detail for how they epoxy up old riveted aluminum boat hulls. A really cool process on how to use temps to actually draw in the epoxy into places it would not normally flow into, but by using a temperature variation at the right time causes an "inhalation" of the liquid epoxy drawing and pulling it deeper into the seams and rivets. It blew me away when I learned that trick and started using it on all my aluminum boats. On my third one now. A freebie brought down from Minnesota to Florida and abandoned in a backyard until it was given to me and I still use the now 50 year old alumacraft boat and there are no leaks. So temperature is more important than I gave it credit for, but a sequence of temperature variations to improve results? I will have to look into this more... Good post and great thread! Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 09:18AM by Kent Griffith. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Chris Catignani
(---)
Date: January 17, 2022 01:12PM
Kent Griffith Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- ... > So temperature is more important than I > gave it credit for, but a sequence of temperature > variations to improve results? I will have to look > into this more... Typically the temp variations (retarding the curing process by cooling and then heating) are done to increase the epoxy's heat resistance. By resistance I mean the point where it goes from glass state to rubbery. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: January 17, 2022 01:35PM
I shudder to think of Ralph O'Quinn's response to the Masterbond information....
......... Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Lance Schreckenbach
(---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: January 17, 2022 03:48PM
"A really cool process on how to use temps to actually draw in the epoxy into places it would not normally flow into, but by using a temperature variation at the right time causes an "inhalation" of the liquid epoxy drawing and pulling it deeper into the seams and rivets. "
I was taught it was a type of capillary action. Very interesting indeed. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Kent Griffith
(---)
Date: January 17, 2022 04:18PM
Yes it is. The method is simple enough. They do all the prep work on the hull and then wait for the hottest time of the day when sun is directly overhead and cooking hot. They keep the boat cooled down and then roll it out into the hot sun to heat up the aluminum to as hot as they can get it, and then they apply the epoxy and shortly after while the epoxy is still as close to liquid as possible, and the heat also makes the epoxy run thinner, but once they apply the epoxy on the heated hull it is rolled back into the shade, and as the hull cools down the metal shrinks some I guess and this causes a pulling effect on the liquid epoxy and draws it deeper into the seams and rivets for a better seal on the hull.
A great technique for sure. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 04:35PM by Kent Griffith. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Michael Danek
(108.60.245.---)
Date: January 23, 2022 08:57AM
I believe it's 10 degrees C. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Michael Danek
(108.60.245.---)
Date: January 23, 2022 08:57AM
I believe it's 10 degrees C. Re: What is meant by Rod Epoxy Crosslinking
Posted by:
Michael Danek
(108.60.245.---)
Date: January 23, 2022 08:57AM
I believe it's 10 degrees C. Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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