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Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Daniel Grundvig (---)
Date: February 12, 2021 09:03PM

I'm planning on building a 3-piece casting travel rod and will probably use an MHX-TR906-3 blank (7'6", 15-40#). The rod will be used primarily for live bait and bottom fishing in Baja using a Penn 25NLD2 or an Andros. I've built most of my knife jig and and some bait rods with spiral guides and I'm inclined to do the same on this rod. Several years ago I built a 2-piece slow pitch jig rod from Black Hole and the dealer's recommendation was NOT to do this (spiral wrap guides) on their blank. Their recommendation was to arrange the guides conventionally because it was a 2-piece and they thought the side load on a guide could twist the top section relative to the handle. The rod's tip section joins the butt section at the foregrip. I took their advice, built it according to their blueprint and had to use a whole bunch of guides to keep the line off the blank under heavy load. There's a big difference between the MHX heavy blank and the Black Hole slow pitch blank but I wanted to check with our experts here for your recommendations. Thanks for your suggestions.

Dan

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: February 12, 2021 10:06PM

Daniel,
I have not seen or heard of anyone’s recommendation to not spiral-wrap a multi-piece rod. After a bit of pondering, I would think the opposite would actually be true. Everyone is aware of rod-twist/torque caused by guides on top, and proponents of spiral-wrapped guides know that doing such eliminates rod twist/torque. The twist is caused by the line wanting to follow the shortest path, on the bottom of the blank, and consequently laterally pulls on the guides, inducing torque. With the angler’s hand(s) trying to counter the torque, I would think the section(s) of a multi-piece rod would be more prone to slipping/rotating than a spiral-wrapped rod which is stable, without any torque. But that is just my novice view; I will be following this topic to learn what the veterans offer.
Let the spiral-wrap debate continue albeit with a slightly different twist (pun intended).

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 12, 2021 10:22PM

The overall effect of a spiral wrap is to eliminate twisting of the rod. Putting all the guides on top will do exactly what the Black Hole folks advised against. They were simply and quite, wrong. Putting all the guides on top means there will be a "side load" along the entire length of the rod blank.

And, of course, there are spiral wrap systems that don't locate guides anywhere other than on the bottom of the rod. No transition guides required. Regardless, the folks at Black Hole, and they are nice people with a very excellent product, were in error. Any spiral wrap is going to reduce torque on any rod, single or multi-piece.

..............

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Daniel Grundvig (---)
Date: February 13, 2021 11:07AM

Mark/Tom,

Well stated guys! That was the nudge I needed, spiral wrap it is. Thanks, Dan

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: February 13, 2021 11:25AM

You can spiral wrap any rod. The next question would be what method of spiral wrapping would you choose to go with?

One thing I would be concerned about is consistent guide alignment, so I would mark the blank pieces in some way so that assembly can be more accurate every time.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: February 13, 2021 02:49PM

Kent,
Very good point! I have only built single-piece, spiral-wrapped rods.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Daniel Grundvig (---)
Date: February 13, 2021 03:25PM

I was thinking of a white alignment dot on each segment like Sage uses on their blanks. I was planning on a single bump guide at 90 degrees but I don't have the blank yet so don't know where the blank segments join with respect to the guide layout. I will start with MHX's suggested guide layout and modify as needed.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 13, 2021 04:58PM

I'll bet that you could just build it all on top, then rotate the front two sections to 180 degrees and it would work just fine.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: February 13, 2021 06:49PM

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll bet that you could just build it all on top,
> then rotate the front two sections to 180 degrees
> and it would work just fine.

Or, rotate middle section to 90 degree on either side and tip section to 180 degrees.

This way he can have spiral wrap and conventional all in one rod.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Daniel Grundvig (---)
Date: February 13, 2021 08:05PM

Or I could use a salt water grip without a trigger and rotate all the sections to the bottom and use it as a spinning rod. Or, when I'm fishing with someone who objects to spiral wrapped rods, I could quickly rotate the top two sections so the guides are on top in order to keep the peace. Oh, the possibilities are endless! Question: Will all this rotation wear out the ferrules? LOL I'll have to figure out how many alignment dots of different colors I'll need in order to incorporate all the possibilities. Thanks guys, this was informative (and fun).

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: February 13, 2021 08:25PM

You can easily make alignment dots by mixing up a small batch of epoxy, and mix in some pigment. You can use marbling pigment or the pigment from Testors enamel. I use the head of a small finishing nail to apply a small dot of colored epoxy. If you make a mistake just remove the uncurled dot and try again. Once cured will last for a long time.
Norm

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 13, 2021 10:46PM

RodMaker Magazine detailed a multi-piece marking tool a few issues back. You just touched it to the assembled blank and bingo - perfect alignment dots on each section.

................

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 14, 2021 12:32PM

Hello All.

Tom said:

"RodMaker Magazine detailed a multi-piece marking tool a few issues back. You just touched it to the assembled blank and bingo - perfect alignment dots on each section".

I could not find it, so maybe it was in one of the lost issues.
Do you know what issue it is in?

Thanks.

P.S. I did find these two:

Volume-15/Issue-6/Page-10 "Spiral Guide Placement" by "Joy Dunlap".

Volume-18/Issue-5/Page-10 "Rod Blank Axis Alignment Marking Jig" by "Buddy Owens"



Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 14, 2021 05:22PM

It's been within the last 3 or 4 years.

...........

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 14, 2021 05:50PM

Just take a section of a dowel, sink a couple fine nails into it right on center as far apart as you want the dots to be, and have one of the nails stick out just a little farther than the other to accommodate the thinner male ferrule. Dip the tips of the nails into your paint, then touch to the blank at the ferrule. I believe this is what you are discussing.

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Re: Spiral wrap guides on a 3-piece travel rod?
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 15, 2021 11:03AM

Hello All.

I think I found it:

V/I Name Page
23/2 Multi-Piece Alignment Marking Tool By Tom Kirkman. 18



Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

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