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Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Chris Garrity (---)
Date: January 25, 2021 02:21PM

Over the past couple of years, I've come to think that when it comes to surf rods, shrink wrap over a cord grip is the best grip material there is. It gives all the benefits of cord (durability, ease of replacement, etc.) but the shrink wrap eliminates the one thing that a lot of surfcasters don't like, which is that cord by itself can feel rough in the hand. I've used it on a bunch of rods, and they've performed great, felt great, and held up great.

I learned, early in my experimenting with this deal, that I needed an adhesive between the cord grip and the shrink wrap: without one, the shrink wrap slides around over the cord, and that's no good. I have been using Rod Bond, which is excellent, but I think I want to find something different, something that will work better for me, as Rod Bond is thicker than I like for this (for reel seats and the like, it's terrific), and it's also expensive, and I need to order it from a rod supply company.

Here would be my ideal list of characteristics for an epoxy for this use:

- one part (no mixing)
- Strong: when the epoxy sets up, I want the chance of failure to be zero (as Rod Bond has been)
- thin and viscous (easy to slather on grips)
- doesn't need air to cure (I've learned recently that a lot of glues won't set without being exposed to air).
- slippery before curing (I need to be able to adjust the grip. This is why spray-on grips failed my experiments -- they set up too fast)
- available at any hardware store (no special ordering)

Also: being inexpensive would be a plus, but is not absolutely necessary.

Maybe I"ll keep using Rod Bond, especially after a couple of other things I tried recently, stuff I got at the local hardware store, failed (one never cured; the bond on the other failed), but there's a lot of knowledge on this board, and I figger that if anyone would know if there's a better epoxy out there for me, it would be here.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you for reading.

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 25, 2021 02:24PM

Shrink wrap or heat shrink tubing?

I can't imagine trying to use shrink wrap on a rod much less gluing it to it.. And you can buy heat shrink tubing with a glue or adhesive already coating the inside so when you shrink it down with the heat causes the glue to activate and adhere.

I'm curious if you have ever tried just coating the cord and be done with it?

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Chris Garrity (---)
Date: January 25, 2021 02:34PM

Kent Griffith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shrink wrap or heat shrink tubing?

Shrink wrap. The stuff that every component house sells.

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: January 25, 2021 03:46PM

Use Devcon 2 Ton epoxy. It is thinner than rod bond, is very strong and flexible, and can be bought in most hardware stores. It also cleans up easily with DNA. Set up in about 1/2 hour probably a little quicker after using the heat gun to shrink your tubing. A Very good all purpose epoxy.
Norm

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 25, 2021 04:02PM

There are no one part epoxies. The Devcon mentioned above is available in different cure rates allowing time to work the grip.

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: John Cates (---.austin.res.rr.com)
Date: January 25, 2021 04:48PM

Flex Coat Rod Builders Glue and also Five Minute Epoxy will work great. If you want a paste we have our @#$%& or High Water OEM paste.

[www.youtube.com]

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: chris c nash (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 25, 2021 05:44PM

All my surf rods and inshore rods are X grip cord with shrink over the top, ( Some I switched to Winn Grip overwraps) and I have used glue at first but found it to be totally unnecessary. I initially sprayed the butt with an aerosol glue and then wrapped the cord , I then decided to apply a heavy amount of glue to a sponge and then pull the cord through the sponge and then apply but I found even that totally unnecessary .

Now I just wrap the cord with tension and make sure I buy the correct diameter shrink which is critical , meaning just large enough to slide over the cord but not slide too easily over the cord . If the shrink is a little too large even after heating the grips can move so buying the right diameter shrink is key . You also need to wipe down the section you plan on wrapping with alcohol before you attempt to wrap the cord. You would be amazed how big a difference this can make to keep the cord and shrink from ever moving after heat is applied. I usually soak the cord in water and then wrap the cord pattern I want because it will tend to shrink a bit when it dries. At that time I slide the shrink over the cord pattern for the foregrip and butt and heat . Comes out fantastic every time with great detail and rock solid durability

I have used Mudholes regular shrink (Non X pattern) for most work . I never use shrink with glue already applied and I have learned glue just adds additional weight but if you're not capable of applying solid tension while wrapping the cord and ending the pattern without losing tension then glue might be your only option. The cord pattern must remain highly tensioned before applying the shrink , some people may have trouble with that because it can be difficult so do it anyway that you can everybody's different .

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 25, 2021 06:19PM

I'd be tempted to try thinning Rod Bond a bit. Wouldn't be to hard to test. ( I'll probably never hear the end of this suggestion!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2021 07:41PM by Lynn Behler.

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: January 26, 2021 12:08AM

Chris,
You mentioned, twice, that you use “shrink wrap”, not shrink tubing. Simply employing SHRINK TUBING will probably solve all your problems of “sliding around” without the hassle, mess, clean-up, cost and weight of using an additional, unneeded bonding agent! I use shrink tubing over cork tape for the majority of my saltwater builds, including 100lb tuna sticks, and have never experienced anything close to it moving around.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Chris Garrity (---)
Date: January 26, 2021 06:54AM

Mark Talmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris,
> You mentioned, twice, that you use “shrink
> wrap”, not shrink tubing. Simply employing
> SHRINK TUBING will probably solve all your
> problems of “sliding around” without the
> hassle, mess, clean-up, cost and weight of using
> an additional, unneeded bonding agent! I use
> shrink tubing over cork tape for the majority of
> my saltwater builds, including 100lb tuna sticks,
> and have never experienced anything close to it
> moving around.

I think I wanna try this. Where do you get it? The stuff I get from the rod component houses has no glue inside -- where do you get the stuff with the sticky stuff built in?

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Chris Garrity (---)
Date: January 26, 2021 08:39AM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Use Devcon 2 Ton epoxy. It is thinner than rod
> bond, is very strong and flexible, and can be
> bought in most hardware stores. It also cleans up
> easily with DNA. Set up in about 1/2 hour probably
> a little quicker after using the heat gun to
> shrink your tubing. A Very good all purpose
> epoxy.
> Norm


I think this is a winner. I've worked with 30-minute epoxy a good bit before, tying saltwater Bob Popovics-style flies, and it will work well, has the right consistency, and I can buy it at the hardware store around the corner from me.

Thank you!

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 26, 2021 08:55AM

I'm just gonna throw this out there... a monkey wrench in the thread...

Hard adhesives like epoxy once cured don't move around, but the tubing might want to. This means over time the tubing can tear away from the epoxy and as it separates there is no re-adhesion properties at all. Its done.

But there is a product I've used in the past that has a high adhesion ability, stays rubbery so it can move around with the tubing and flex with it while still maintaining adhesion, and can be reattached with heat as needed and can be removed if needing replaced down the road. Epoxy will be far more difficult to remove.

Butyl rubber adhesive:

Butyl rubber is a copolymer of isobutylene and a small amount of isoprene. Impermeable to air, it has great chemical, weather and ozone resistance, making it ideal for a range of end-use applications. These include:

Tires (especially tire inner tubes, its first major application)
Tapes
Sporting goods

Rising butyl rubber in adhesive applications is one of the main factors in the copolymer’s growth. Additionally, the growing transportation sector and investments in construction are expected to increase its demand over the next seven years and open up new opportunities.

Butyl Rubber Benefits:

Butyl rubber offers many benefits, such as:

Good vibration dampening
Superior age resistance
Flexibility

Using Butyl Rubber in Adhesive Manufacturing

Butyl rubber can be used in adhesive formulations such as hot melt pressure sensitive adhesives for tape applications. While having a rubber base typically would make the adhesive sensitive to high heat exposure, these adhesives are specially formulated to be less sensitive to temperature variations.

Considered “butyl tapes”, butyl rubber offers these adhesives for tapes the following advantages:

High initial tack
High level of adhesion to a variety of substrates
Waterproof



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2021 08:58AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: January 26, 2021 10:23AM

Use contact cement on the back (smooth side) of a 1/2" wide strip of emery cloth and on the rod grip. When the contact cement is "dry" tightly wind the emery cloth [rough side out] in a open spiral along the grip. The flocked shrink tube grip will not slide over the grit on the emery cloth.

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Grant Darby (172.92.68.---)
Date: January 26, 2021 10:49AM

Give the 3M stuff a try. Aerosol spray. It goes under all my shrink wrap, and yeah, that's what I call it as well. Use it on my fishing "poles".

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Re: Question for the Glue Gurus
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: January 26, 2021 06:45PM

Chris,
Virtually all rod building supply businesses, including this site’s sponsors to the left, carry “heat shrink tubing”. It does NOT come with an adhesive inside, NOR DOES IT NEED IT! It comes in various diameters and colors and most have a faint “X” pattern on the surface. Other than a hard “Slick-Butt” type of handle, shrink tubing over my cork tape or your cord is about as tough as one can get, offers outstanding grip, is relatively inexpensive, last a long time yet easy to replace if needed and looks nice and functional. Consider checking it out before jumping through flaming hoops as you and others have suggested.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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