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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Jeffrey D Rennert (---.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 01:30AM

Tom, please give me an example of a good weight to stiffness ratio. Thanking all in advance

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 04:43AM

Tom's using carbon Fiber slang with the " Weight to stiffness " ratio , i believe most know exactly what he means but he is Tom Kirkman after all & knows exactly what he's talking about.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 09:36AM

Brian,
The next time you go fishing, during at least part of the trip, hold the fishing rod in front of the reel and the reel seat and fore grip. This way you are holding onto the bare blank and there is nothing in the seat assembly or grip to reduced the vibrations coming down the rod.

I know that I lot of people fish, with a finger on the line all of the time, no matter how else they hold the rod. You will often feel the vibration of a biting fish come up the line more easily than feeling the vibration through the blank of the rod.

Another thing that I lot of fisher folks do, when the fish is to watch the tip of the rod.

Even if folks don't realize that they are watching the tip of the rod - they are actually secret tip watchers and get part of their fishing biting information from the movement or tick on the line that indicates a fish on the hook.

Be safe

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: May 19, 2019 10:17AM

Jeffery
If i hit you on the top of the head with a one pound feather pillow using all my strength, you will most likely get mad. Turn around and take a swing at me.

If I hit you on top of the head with a one pound ball peen hammer using one quarter of my strength.
Some one is going to call you an ambulance, and you will have no idea who to swing at.
"good weight to stiffness ratio"

Roger
Brian built this rod to be a jerk bait rod, which means jerking/twitching the rod repeatedly to impart action to the bait,
which makes it kind of hard maintain a good grip on the reel if your trying to hold the line.

Also it's kind of hard to watch the tip for a bite when it is swinging back and forth in almost constant repetitive motion.
Sometimes the fish might bite on the pause and you notice it, but not very often.
I find that i get most bites in the middle of a jerk. or right after it has paused and start another jerk.

The exception being in the winter when I use longer pauses between jerks.
But i still don't want to move hand from reel to line and back to reel again for another jerk, in hopes of feeling the bite.

The point is: If you build the rod sensitive enough with out using products that destroy that sensitivity (ability to feel) what is going on at the other end of the line
you don't have to worry about holding the line or watching the tip.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 11:24AM

Good to hear from you Steve.

Anytime someone says nice things about the competition I pay extra attention. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try a point blank rod sometime.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 03:26PM

Steve,
If you are using a a rod for jerk bait fishing using a constant start -jerk - stop, why is there even a discussion on blank sensitivity.

When fishing using this technique, the jerk sets the hook on the fish, so that a person first feels the fish, after it is already hooked ????????????????

-------------------
I fish for Walleye, using a snap jigging technique which is essentially the same, except that the person fishing is using a drop, jerk, drop technique with a jig and minnow combination. Again, during the jerk, the hook is set and then the person knows that there is a fish on.
No need for a super sensitive rod. As a matter of fact, a stiffer rod works better for this technique rather than a rod with a softer tip.

But, if I am lobbing a 1/8th oz jig, I fish with a medium light rod with a softer tip and super sensitivity, to be able to feel the minnow flipping its tail.


Good luck

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Brian Cheung (---.globale.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 04:04PM

I read online that on some high end rods (eg G Loomis nrx) people claimed to be able to feel the bite while fishing with a jerk bait. I didn't know if it was possible and was using lower end rods before so decided to try on a high modulus blank. Most of the time in my experience the pike hit the lure on the pause, and the next jerk just feels heavier, that's why I tested how well I could feel the vibrations with a crankbait (probably not a very good test with the extra fast action that doesn't allow as much wobble of the tip). I may try stripping it and rebuilding with a polyurethane or Fuji graphite arbor and seeing the difference, but my next rod will definitely use arbors that are not tape. I still have much to learn but I'm glad that there is good discussion from this thread about many variables that I didn't think of, it will make my next build much better.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the feedback.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 04:47PM

Removing reel seats that have been glued using slow set epoxy can be a real nightmare to remove and many resort to cutting it off with a high rpm Dremel using a cutting wheel , this is a process that requires precision & concentration because you can easily do a lot of damage . Some people have had success using other methods including using boiling water or heat guns but there are no guarantee's some seats are just best left alone .

You want to know the blank people have raved about most for ultimate sensitivity , it's the North Fork Composites X Ray blanks , lifelong rod builders on this very site love them to death and say nothing compares and i believe it but getting back to your situation , i would leave well enough alone and just learn for your mistakes .

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 19, 2019 05:17PM

Jeffrey D Rennert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, please give me an example of a good weight to
> stiffness ratio. Thanking all in advance


For any given stiffness, the lighter of two blanks will be the most sensitive.

............

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 05:18PM

I only use fitted seats with a cutout that allows the finger(s) of your rod hand to contact the blank. e.g. Fuji ascm and others. (Some don't like the acsm, so look at several types.) These require no arbor and are glued directly to the blank but you have to know exactly where you want it to sit when ordering. (It's nice if you can order the seat at the same time as the blank and have the supplier size the seat for you, which for some reason I never seem to be able to do.) Those seats fitted with inserts look cool, but they're not doing us any favors from a sensitivity standpoint. Too many layers, too much glue. I also trim excess threads from seat and use a no-foregrip winding check. I've never heard any sensitivity complaints with Point Blank. Split seats are also an option but I don't care for them. As Tom said, anything you add affects sensitivity. So now you really got a problem, use it as is, or......[anglersresource.net].... Last edit, I promise.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2019 06:54PM by Lynn Behler.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 05:29PM

I think i have been lucky because the seats i use have been relatively snug where i position them on the blank , i would be curious to know what people use in that type of situation where you only need to add maybe 3 sheets of paper worth of thickness for it to be a super tight fit . I have never heard of sensitivity complaints from Point Blank or NFC either and i would bet the house that there are people out there that have used tape for arbors on X Ray blanks , (God forbid) but i still bet there are .

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 05:39PM

Herb, try using D (or E) thread. You don’t want a “super tight fit”.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 09:28PM

Yeah, thread is an option , i did read about people using thread for a variety of tasks other than just wrapping guides although i didn't think of it until you brought it up so thank you . I was curious is there is anything that would be more dense and not as soft as thread but i really cannot think of anything . Thanks for your recommendation nonetheless.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 09:36PM

Brian,
I have used no arbors, poly arbors and tape arbors and have really found no difference in sensitivity of the rod blank when being used.

But, other folks may have different experiences.

Be safe

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 09:42PM

There's only one most sensitive way.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 20, 2019 11:21AM

Brian, to get the most sensitiity out of your rod install a 3" to 4" carbon fiber foregrip and learn to use it..since you like to work jerk baits, this way of gripping will free up your wrist and make lure manipulation so much easier and you no longer need be concerned with reel seat arbor materials..

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 20, 2019 12:34PM

Before i messed with anything i would go out and fish it a second time , i have fished newly built rods and remember coming home and having questions about it and realizing what i did that day really didn't put it to the test , after my second trip i realized that all was good and any doubts about it were erased .

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 20, 2019 12:42PM

x10 on Herbs comments.

However, I would suggest that you take the rod out and fish it for a thousand days before making any changes.

Then, you can decide if you really want to make any changes in the rod.

Best wishes.

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 20, 2019 01:41PM

Roger, i couldn,t agree more..i think it,s a good idea to coat the wraps with just CP and fish the rod for one season to see how you like the set up..if you don,t, it,s a lot easier to take the guides off and clean the rod up and then make any changes in the handle, etc..

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Re: Point blank rod sensitivity?
Posted by: Jason Yu (12.250.65.---)
Date: May 20, 2019 02:18PM

This is my experience with Point Blank blanks.

I've only built one rod using their 7ft MH/F blank. The weight was heavier than advertised. (1.94oz). I weighed it with a scale and it was actually 2.36oz.

What I used: Full cork handle, Fuji ECSM 16, no foregrip, 11+tip top Fuji Torzite micro K series guides.

The rod came out super light, and responsive, no problem detecting bites. I've seen the rod boat flip 5-6LB bass no problem.

The rod is stiff and has more backbone than a St.Croix or G.Loomis Medium Heavy. It has a soft tip that shuts off at 25% down the blank.

It's sensitive but not as sensitive as my NFC HMX MB705-1. It's more sensitive than my 7ft MH/F St.Croix SC4 blank, but not by much.

I was disappointed with it but it's still considered a high end blank in my experience. Blanks I've used has been St.Croix SC4, NFC, Point Blanks...

for $160 I consider it a great blank.

If you want to test a rod's sensitivity. Tie on a Texas rig using braid with a pegged Tungsten weight and drag it on the bottom, I've found this is the best method for testing sensitivity.

In my opinion, high end GLoomis rods, NFC Blanks, Phenix K2 are still the most sensitive.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2019 02:26PM by Jason Yu.

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