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James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 09, 2019 01:53PM

Mr Taylor, you commented in a thread I posted titled "MVT woes" I don't know if this is the proper of going about it, but I figure what better person to ask, than someone that could find out the answers to some questions I have. So if I could, I'd like to ask you some questions regarding the MVT casting reel seats?

Today (3/9) I received the replacement seat for the one I spoke of in the above mentioned thread. One thing that I didn't mention in that previously mentioned thread, was that the woven insert in the reel seat was loose. It actually came out of the seat when I was sliding the seat off the blank on my initial test fit of the seat. That same woven insert is loose, to the point of it falling out when I took the seat out of the bag, on the replacement seat I just received. I've used several MVT casting seats on prior builds and never noticed the insert to be loose in the seat, nor have I ever had one come out.

With that said, my first question for you would be .... Am I wrong in what I feel would be a logical assumption, that those woven inserts are supposed to be epoxied in at the factory? After all, they are pictured installed in the seat on the Alps web site, and they come installed inside the package you receive them in. If they aren't epoxied in at the factory, that means that I have rods with reel seats that have the potential to become loose. I certainly hope that is not the case. Hopefully you can shed some light on how the seats are constructed, so that I can properly install them in the future.

My second question would be concerning how the reel seats are sized. More specifically, what point of the reel seat's length is measured to delineate its' size? At the back of the woven insert at the rear of the seat? At the mid point of the seat? Or at the end of the threaded portion of the seat? The reason I ask is, going by what is stamped inside the seat, and the bag it came in, I just measured the ID of the woven insert of a 13mm seat, and it measure .531". I measured the insert 3 times and never had a variation of more than .001"

.531" is 13.5 mm. This leads me to believe that either 1) the insert's ID is over size, or 2) the seats are sized based on something other than the ID of the insert at the back of the seat. When ordering the MVT casting seats, I have been operating under the assumption that the size was at the back of the seat. My logic is, or perhaps was, that one would simply measure the diameter of the blank where the rear grip ends, and order the appropriate sized seat.

I want to make it clear that I absolutely love the MVT casting reel seats, and am in no way disparaging them. They're the only seats I use on my casting rod builds. I'm just trying to learn as much about them as I can so I can avoid any problems in the future.

Any information you, or others with similar knowledge of the product can provide, will be greatly appreciated.

Very Sincerely,

David Baylor

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.61.---)
Date: March 10, 2019 05:00PM

While you are waiting, I'll comment. I believe that all reel seat sleeves are meant to be epoxied in place in the reel seat. I have never built one leaving it loose. As you epoxy them in place there will be epoxy smeared onto the sleeve at any window in the seat, but it comes off easily with a generous wiping with a paper towel wet with alcohol (before the epoxy cures, of course.) If I'm wrong on the part I commented on it won't take long to get corrected.

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 11, 2019 04:12PM

Michael, thanks for the response, I appreciate it. My thing is I thought they were epoxied in at the factory. This will be the 5th build I've done using the MVT seat, and I have never epoxied one in. All of the seats prior to the last two, the inserts have been in there and not been loose. And when I test fit the seats I slide them down on the blank to a point where they are very snug on the blank. I've never had one show any signs of being loose when I pulled them back off before epoxying them back on. If I was supposed to take them out and epoxy them in, I didn't know it.

And if they aren't epoxied in at the factory, that means that the 4 I have installed on my rods that are not epoxied into the seat itself. Which is not a good thing. My saving grace may be that a lot of epoxy gets trapped between the back of the reel seat, and the tenon on the end of the grips I use. That and I pack as much epoxy as I can into the end of the thread barrel. I haven't had any evidence that any of my seats are loose thus far, so my guess is that the ones I have installed already, are ok.

Hopefully James or someone from Batson will come along soon with some information. As to the most recent one I received with the insert that isn't epoxied in, I'm going to epoxy it in, and let it dry a couple of days before I ream it. Can't wait to get these builds done, they're the 2 NFC X ray blanks I purchased. Gonna be some great rods !!!

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 11, 2019 06:18PM

David
look and see if you notice any traces of a glue joints on the inside of seat and graphite tube.

I've been using these seats since before they were even on the market. (during testing and evaluation phase)
With one exception I've never epoxied one, and have never had a problem with them coming loose once installed.

The lone exception was on one that came loose while reaming (got stuck on the reamer) and pulled out. I saw traces of glue joint and figured it was just a weak glue joint from factory.
I will contact Batson and James to reply.
Could be a problem from factory they are not aware of yet. With you being the first person to bring this up it may be something that is a fluke or from bad batch of glue.

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 11, 2019 07:45PM

Steve, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. And to answer your question about their being any signs of glue on any of the pieces .... no, there are no signs at all. No signs on the one I just received, and no signs on the one I will be sending back because its ID was larger than I expected it to be.

That's what has me a bit spooked. On the other MVT seats I've used, there were signs (at least there appeared to be to me) of them being epoxied at the factory. One of them even had some epoxy visible in the window where the insert fits. I also can't thank you enough for your contacting Batson and James for me in reference to this thread. That is huge of you.

I absolutely love these seats, and even though of late I've had some difficulties with them, they will be the only seats I use on my casting rod builds.

Thanks again Steve, I really really appreciate it !!!

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 11, 2019 07:55PM

Batson usually replies almost instantly and with them being at the Fred Hall show in Long Beach Cali from March 6 - 10th they deserve a little bit slack. I feel one of their reps could of responded to this question quicker however they see whats up throughout the day on these forums.

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 11, 2019 09:02PM

Herb, only one business day has passed since I posted this thread. I am fine with not getting a response from them as of yet. As you mentioned, this is a busy time of year for all of the suppliers and manufacturers. That and James or someone else from Batson may have seen this thread and are checking with Alps to get exact information before they post a response. I work in manufacturing, and there are times we have to wait a day or two before our engineers get back to us on the floor about a problem we're having with one of our components. So like I said, I'm good with it.

The response from Steve did a lot to slow my mind.

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 11, 2019 11:25PM

James Taylor is usually the only one who checks this web site on a consistent basis, and is actually out of the the office. Which is why he has not responded yet.

I emailed him and asked him to take a look at this thread when he gets back. So he should be responding in the next couple of days.

Bill and some of the other staff are presently out of town working shows, Bill told me the other day that he would be on the road for the next 40 days doing so.

David;
the MVT's are my favorite seats also

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: Geoff Staples (---.wavecable.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 02:14PM

Mr. Baylor,
I'll do my best to answer your questions on the MVT inserts. Let me start by saying the quickest way to get warranty/technical questions answered is to email our support staff directly at warranty@batsonenterprises.com. We don't necessarily check forums every day, particularly when our staff is thinned out due to shows, illness, etc.
I went and checked out some seats in our inventory and found a mixed bag regarding inserts. Our TexTouch (TX16) trigger seats all have unglued inserts across the board, and the MVT trigger seats had glued inserts on the smaller ID's and unglued inserts on the larger ones. I wouldn't say this constitutes a defect in either group, although we'll work towards better consistency one way or another (likely unglued from the factory.)
Inserts in molded casting seats should be treated like inserts in fly, or any other reel seat type in that they should always be checked before installation. We have heavy salt models with inserts that require an extremely good glue bond to ensure they withstand the pressures of those applications. On the heavy salt stuff, I prefer to glue them myself to ensure the glue type and coverage is to my satisfaction. I'm quite confident that when installing size 16 trigger seats, having adequate glue coverage in the threaded barrel area, the inside of the blank exposure area, and in the back recessed tenon pocket is more than enough to keep the seat securely installed for the life of the rod. So I don't think you have anything to worry about if some were installed without gluing the insert to the seat body.
Regarding the question about sizing, the rear opening is typically 0.5mm larger than the listed reel seat size. Fitting blank exposed seats isn't achievable 100% of the time by measuring blank O.D. and matching to the closest exposure size. This is due to variation in blank taper from model to model. For this reason, we do offer to fit seats to blanks based on a customers desired rear grip length. I hope this info is helpful. Thanks

Geoff Staples
www.batsonenterprises.com

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 04:27PM

Steve, once again, thank you VERY MUCH for the info you've offered and for taking the reins for me on these questions. Definitely an above and beyond kind of thing, that I can't thank you enough for doing. You are definitely the man .....

Geoff, thank you very much for your response. The info you provided is extremely helpful. I now know what to expect regarding the inserts themselves as well as how to go about ordering the right size seat, the first time around. After reading your explanation on how the seats are sized, I busted out my calipers and checked the ID of the very end of the thread barrel. .510" - 12.954 mm. To be honest, I feel kind of silly for not having checked that dimension before now. Had I checked when I first started using the MVT seats, I wouldn't have had to ask the sizing question, and I certainly wouldn't have posted the thread I did, about the MVTs possibly being over sized.

And finally, I definitely get what you're saying about blank taper playing a substantial part in how these types of seats, fit. When you have a taper of .005" per inch of blank run and your seat is .010" larger than you expected it to be, it makes a big difference where that seat stops on the blank. lol

Again thank you Geoff , you've helped a lot. And Steve ..... if I can ever do anything for you, please let me know ..... I owe you kind sir.

Word in the local fishing forums is that the lakes around me are almost completely open. I have some rod building to do !!!!

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Re: James Taylor, Batson Enterprises
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 06:07PM

David
You are most welcome
One of the blessings of where I live (NC), is that the lakes don't close up except for some occasional flooding which makes accessing the ramps impossible.

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