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To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Marc Morrone (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: February 23, 2019 07:20AM

I generally build to the straightest axis and forget about it on spinning rods. But I started using some blanks that generally have a very pronounced spine - they are smaller diameter slightly heavier wall, bass and walleye type spinning rods.

With the really pronounced spine, and wanting to jump to a particular spot when checked, I'm having a hard time not building to the spine on them.

Any thoughts?

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: February 23, 2019 08:03AM

If you are building for yourself, go with whatever you feel is best.
However, if the blank has a curve that goes noticeably off to the side when the spine is used,
I would always go for the straightest axis.
The only time I go with the spine anyway is on a trolling rod, especially a heavier power.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 23, 2019 10:49AM

I would do some testing, install the handle and reel seat without gluing it. Set the guides with masking tape along the straight axis.and do some casting or even a short fishing run..

Then rotate the handle and reel seat and set the guides along the spine and repeat the exercise.

See if there is notable difference if not build along the straight axis.if there is build along the axis that performs best for you.

Generally building along the straight axis works well.

This may seem a lot of extra work but experimenting and learning is never time wasted.

Have fun
John

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: February 23, 2019 11:16AM

If you have a very pronounced spine, build on that axis.
It is nice of the spine and the straightest axis are the same as well.

p.s.
I build on the straightest axis, but I still spine the rods. Just a double check.

Take care

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 23, 2019 12:42PM

Obviously this delicate point will never be settled. Fortunately, nobody has ever measured (or revealed) any differences in performance between spined and un-spined rods. Why not just go with what satisfies you?

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: February 23, 2019 01:09PM

Phil, Tom Kirkman posted numbers of rods built on the spine, versus rods built with no regard for the spine in a thread not all that long ago. The search button is your friend.

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 23, 2019 01:29PM

with the better pre-pregs and better rolling machines we have today if a rod has a pronounced spine i would send it back as having been damaged..lol.

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 23, 2019 05:17PM

David: Tom Kirkman knows as much about spines and rod building as anyone, but I searched as you suggested and found no comparative "numbers" of the feet and inches of casts between rods built on spine vs. rods built on axis. I suspect this is because there is too little or no difference to report.

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 23, 2019 09:58PM

All the data points to building on the straightest axis. Building on the spine, for all the various supposed reasons, remain myth. The issue was settled long ago. But, precisely because spine is so very unimportant, you can build on it, or off of it, and it won't matter. Building on the spine produces a slightly weaker rod (deadlift) that is about all.

..............

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Jacob Nebeker (---.sub-174-222-129.myvzw.com)
Date: February 23, 2019 10:07PM

Tom so what your saying is it's not important?

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 23, 2019 10:42PM

If it was, then don't you think all the rods built on an axis other than the spine would suffer some sort of malady?

................

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: February 23, 2019 11:12PM

This is one of the most asked questions in the history of rod building and i would bet it will continue to be asked when all of us are long gone , if you use the search feature thousands of pages asking about whether spine matters will pop up. What contributes to the continued confusion , large rod building suppliers still insist it matters and they have written instruction's on the need to find the spine before you go about building your rod . Unfortunate

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Bruce Phillips (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: February 23, 2019 11:34PM

I have a couple cheap pre made rod's and just for giggles I checked the spline on them and guess what they where not built on the spline and I realize this is on a 100 dollar manufactured rod but it if was important you would think they would build on the spline.

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Norman Miller (12.170.14.---)
Date: February 23, 2019 11:44PM

The spine does it matter issue has been going on for the 50 yrs I have been building rods. If the spine and the straightest axis are the same go with it. However in many cases they are not the same, so go with the straightest axis, other wise your tip will veer off to the left or the right, and this just doesn’t look good. Because of this, I’ve alway built on the straightest axis. For a spinning rod I put the guides on the convex side of the curve and for a casting rod on the conave side. I both cases the blank tip points up and the weight of the guides and tip top will help straighten the blank. This also increases dead weight lifting power of the blank, which Tom has described previously.
Norm

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 24, 2019 10:10AM

The orientation of the tip-top determines the axis where the stress on a rod will fall. When building a spiral-wrap rod should the tip-top line up with the spine or the straightest axis of the rod blank?

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 24, 2019 06:37PM

I may be wrong about this, but I think the tip could be at 90% and the line would still exit the rod at the bottom of the tip ring. To my way of thinking the tip has the least amount of influence on the rod of all the guides.

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 25, 2019 08:13AM

Rod blanks are made to withstand and resist the stress of flexing (to some point and amount of load). The idea that you are reducing stress on the blank by building on the spine is false. The idea that the blank wants to bend along the spine is false - you'll note that it also resists flexing in that direction (wouldn't work if it didn't). All building on the spine is doing is putting the rod in its weakest position relative to the overall power built into the rod blank. But again, it'll still work because the blank does not want to bend, period. It resists being flexed and will come back to straight once any applied load is removed.

I wouldn't stress over it too much. If you want the most deadlifting power and crispest response, build along the straightest axis. If your mind rests easier by building along the spine, do that.

.......

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 25, 2019 10:13AM

It seems that many procedures in rod building are based upon hearsay and history rather than science and measurement. We rod builders are awash in vague claims of "feeling", "smooth", "soulful" "light", "fast", and "accurate" but NOT feet, yards, ounces, pounds, breaking point, feet per second, hoop strength: qualities that can actually be quantified. These exclusively vague advertising claims might be necessary because there is so little difference between rod-building components and their performance - or measurable superiority would surely be advertised with those measurements.

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: February 25, 2019 11:24AM

Phil , in the rod building trade most of it's subjective and a lot of it is also basic common sense . Stuff like "feeling", "smooth", "soulful" "light", "fast", and "accurate" is impossible to measure from one person to the next . You mentioned feet, yards, ounces, pounds, breaking point, feet per second and hoop strength , you can measure ounces and pounds but where does yards and feet come into it ? Are you talking casting distance because if you're then guide type & sizes , line type and pound test , reel type and features etc... must be known first .

As far as breaking point , Tom did an amazingly detailed study on what point different blanks will fail , you can find it in the archives and again he discusses the angles the blanks were subjected to that caused them to fail , dead lifting capacity before they failed etc....


Here's my question, what specific thing is it that you would like to know that to this day in the year 2019 has still not been provided ? What specific "Advertising claims" are you referring to exactly ? Most veteran anglers don't fall for advertising claims but there are a lot that do unfortunately , basic common sense is all thats needed and as an angler you need to realize manufacturers are always trying to outdo the other , it's just business .

Pay no mind to that stuff .

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Re: To Spine or Not to Spine - Spinning Rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: February 25, 2019 11:47AM

Phil , your comment about different rod components not offering a substantial performance advantage is dead on accurate , for instance if you were to compare the best guides from American Tackle , Seaguide and Fuji & built 3 identical rods using each manufacturers guide set the difference in performance is very little , one type will not cast considerably further than the other , it's about what manufacturer an angler feels most comfortable with , the styling and price points , they're all fantastic products that suit a wide variety of anglers and budgets .

How you layout the guides will significantly effect the performance but none are vastly inferior to the other , same with rod blanks , the best from each manufacturer will perform very well and thats when personal preference will come in . No top manufacturers out there make vastly superior products compared to the next , differences yes but subtle .

Due to the fact that there is not huge differences between manufacturers thats where the advertising jargon comes in , they're all competing for your dollar .

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