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Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: John Cates (---.sub-174-207-20.myvzw.com)
Date: January 28, 2019 05:41PM

[youtu.be]

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 28, 2019 06:19PM

Love these guys. Watch this, then tell me how spine means nothing!

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 28, 2019 07:14PM

No freaking out on my end , just a difference of opinion thats all.

I watched it and i still say there is no perceptual difference between a rod spined as shown and a rod built on the straightest axis , unless perhaps you're one of the very few on planet earth that can fish a rod in a single plane that aligns with said spine. Just my opinion of course & as expected there are some who still feel very differently .

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 28, 2019 07:57PM

I think that is very clever, simple and self explanatory. I am looking forward to try it.

I do a three step check.

1. I sight down the blank look for the straightest axis and mark it with tape..

2. I sight down the blank and look for the natural curve and mark it with tape..

3. I then check the blank on my spine finder and mark the spine with tape.

I look at the results and decide that building along the straightest axis seems to be the best choice.

Again thanks Flexcoat.

John.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 28, 2019 08:15PM

Okay, not to pick on Flex Coat, they make great products and videos. But as in so many cases where spine is discussed, this is a not a real world fishing situation. Fish do not jump out of the water and pull down on the end of your rod. Fishing rods have guides mounted on them and if you run a line through the guides and then load that line, the lever arm effect of the guides will trump any spine effect. So, spine indeed means nothing if we're talking about practical use in a real world fishing situation.

............

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 28, 2019 08:41PM

Yeah, but doesn't it make you curious? Anyway, good method of detection. How many spine finders have been sold over the years when this is free? Even if you don't need it.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 28, 2019 09:23PM

No, it doesn't make me curious because all the data, all the facts (and there is a ton of it) point to spine being irrelevant.

A lot of Quija boards have been sold over the years as well.

But as usual, Roger makes great videos and offers great commentary. He's one of the best rod building instructors/spokespersons the craft has ever had.


............

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 28, 2019 10:32PM

Oh no.

Just when I thought it was safe to abandon all thought of spine along comes this video which seriously stirs my pot for the few spinning and bait casting rods I build.

And even more distressing was the notion that mounting fly rod guides on the outside of the curve or on the spine instead of opposite the spine (what we used to refer to as building a fly rod up instead of down) will improve casting accuracy.

Guess I'm either going to have to start taking the meds again or just admit the fly rods I've built of late all cast better than I am capable of casting them.

Maybe next month we can debate the relative merits of size 8 vs. 8 1/2 lead shot for the first target in American trap doubles.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 28, 2019 11:03PM

I have a feeling a lot of builders still check spine orientation when they get a new blank just to see how it lines up the question is are they still insistent on laying out their guides according to which side the prominent spine is on . I think it's probably half and half , iv'e wondered why the leading rod building supplier in the United States to this day show it as a first step in building a custom rod despite all the evidence to the contrary .

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Matthew Pitrowski (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 29, 2019 12:20AM

over the years that I have been building and following the trends there some worth there salt and then there those that you can take or leave this one I prefer to take and use as I feel that it gives you the peak performance from a rod you build as a custom for your self or a customer. it is just one of those extra steps that you take when building and not just slapping it together like the retail rod mfg's do.
That takes away the custom factor that a customer is paying for every technical step to be followed and the end product preforms exceptionally well that some can feel and others just miss that difference in the feel of the rod being cast ,the feel of a lure being used retrieved and fighting a fish.
I has a lot to do with the fishing your doing if your doing salt water where everything is heavier weight or light weight fresh water and more so for fly rods in how they correct when being cast does it roll to the left or the right of center ?
Do what suits you but it doesn't take any big amount of time to spine a rod try it you might like it.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 29, 2019 08:36AM

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a feeling a lot of builders still check
> spine orientation when they get a new blank just
> to see how it lines up the question is are they
> still insistent on laying out their guides
> according to which side the prominent spine is on
> . I think it's probably half and half , iv'e
> wondered why the leading rod building supplier in
> the United States to this day show it as a first
> step in building a custom rod despite all the
> evidence to the contrary .


Does that rod building supplier sell spine finder devices? If so, there is your answer as to why they show spine finding as a first step. Sales.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Nick Lam (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: January 29, 2019 09:33AM

Sure, data can show spine is irrelevant objectively in terms of casting and breakage, but what about subjective reports on how it feels. Heck we have folks building spiral wraps for the subjective feel of a rod and how it is stabilized, but I'd be surprised if data shows that spiral wraps also cast further or catch more fish. Bottom line is that the spine exists, and we wouldn't be talking about it if it didn't. What to do with that fact is everyones choice. For my ultra light builds it might not make a difference but in my heavy tuna builds, the spine isn't "irrelevant." The power of the rod is great enough that the force of the spine is actually quite strong, and building on it helps with the stabilization of the rod, much in the same way a spiral wrap does.

Either way, I don't disagree that the hard data may support its irrelevance objectively, but I know what it's like to max out a 150# class rod on a 300# tuna without a harness, seat, or rod holder and I definitely don't need another force twisting the reel away from me.

Humbly, I know that my knowledge and experience is nowhere near what the legends in the game have, but thats my two cents.

Nick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2019 09:37AM by Nick Lam.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: John Cates (---.sub-174-207-25.myvzw.com)
Date: January 29, 2019 10:52AM

The reason we did this video is we have many people asking how we find the spine of a rod. Yes, sometimes we align our guides with the straightest axis for cosmetic reasons. This is how we do it. Indicator is easy to make yourself. Make it your own. That is what custom rod building is all about.

Thanks for the constructive comments that makes us all better builders.

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 29, 2019 02:20PM

I think this is great for finding spine on butt sections of multi piece fly rod blanks but the tip sections almost always have to go on the straightest axis, like John said in the video, otherwise it will look bad and in reality it does not matter because the guides are going to force the blank to bend in a certain direction. Also there are usually a major spine and then 1 or 2 other minor spines in one piece blanks. It seem like when we check the we always use our hand about a foot from the tip and this is actually spining (new word) the rod for the section between the butt and the hand and not the tip section. If you place the rod butt on the ground, vertically, and apply pressure to the very tip downward this will spine the entire rod and is probably the easiest way to do it.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 29, 2019 05:34PM

I build on the straightest axis. But when I get a straight blank I build on the spine, cause why not put the guides where they want to be if possible.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Paul Luechtefeld (---.mobile.att.net)
Date: January 30, 2019 11:13AM

For me it depends on how strong the spine is. If it's very pronounced I will build on the spine if not i build on the straightest axis

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: ron zimmerman (---.tcso.qwest.net)
Date: January 31, 2019 11:08AM

I'm not sure it matters . I caught a fish on the back cast once and still got him in .

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Michael Tarr (172.56.5.---)
Date: February 02, 2019 09:58AM

All the great rod builders (St. Croix, G-loomis, Shimano, Dobyns, Megabass, Phenix, etc.) seem to build on the spine, must be something to that. The spine is the path of least resistance when torque is applied resulting in less unnecessary strain added to the blank. I'm sure these large manufactures have invested plenty into R&D to bring the customer the best performance.

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 02, 2019 11:22AM

Actually, they don't. In fact we did an article on this and what most manufacturers do in terms of blank alignment and 9 out of 10 build on the straightest axis. St. Croix even uses a laser line to quickly find the straightest axis.

As far the spine being the "path of least resistance" and therefore supposedly not adding strain to the rod blank, give that statement some real thought. It is the fact that the rod resists flexing that makes it suitable for use as a fishing rod - it's made to take these types loads and "strain." And when you build on the spine you are placing the weakest orientation in play against the greatest load. Not a good thing, at least if you want the maximum amount power and deadlift capability the blank can deliver.

If building on the spine truly reduced "strain" on the blank per your statement, then it would stand to reason that a rod built on the spine would exhibit greater strength and resistance to failure than one built on the straightest axis. The converse is actually true:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

..................

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Re: Don't freak out, this is how we do it.
Posted by: Michael Tarr (172.56.5.---)
Date: February 02, 2019 02:19PM

I'm going off the fact that the high-end rods I own from these manufactures all were built on the spine. Could be by chance but I don't believe that's the case. Just my personal experience with products.

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