Hi Everyone,

I was starting to post a thread about rainshadow blanks. In particular I wanted to see some numbers for the upper end RX7 rainshadow blanks (6 wt+). I have suspeced for a while now that they are under rated by 1 line wt for a lot of the blanks. But,I started thinking more and more about it, and I'm interested in quite a few blanks. So, here's my proposal. I am going to start rating my rods tonight. I have a half dozen or so fly rods/blanks that I can rate easily and a bunch more I will dig out of tubes. I'm going to start making an excel file of the manufacturer, rod length, manufacturer's line weight, and the measured/calculated ERN and AA numbers. If anyone has data they would like to contribute, email me what you have. I will put it all together in an excel file and make it available to everyone who contributes. For now, it can be a small working database for any interested builders at least until some manufacturers begin to rate rods.

If you are interested, send an email to me at rkoontz@andrew.cmu.edu (available by clicking my name in this message header) with the subject line reading "Common Cents Data". Tell me what rod you are rating, if it is a blank or finished rod, the rod specs (line/length), and your values for the ERN/AA. I will compile everything into one file as I receive the data. If it is in a table format all the better. I can go with all microsoft files and text files. I have the latest editions of each so don't worry about formatting.

If someone has already started this and I missed it somewhere, I apologize for stepping on your toes.

Thanks,
Rick Koontz
rkoontz@andrew.cmu.edu

A "DBI" rating tells the whole story - ERN/AA. Good way to present it.

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This would be a great service to the builders. I do have a concern but it's not meant as a criticism.

The Common Cents System seems to be based on consistency. If more than one builders rates the blanks for any type of database, and each one isn't very sure to do so accurately, then some bad readings get entered into the mix.

Also, since no two blanks are really exactly the same, it's hard to take one, rate it and then publish it as the standard ERN and AA for that specific model. Now if the manufacturer would do this, they can take 4 or 5 of each model and arrive at a general average or target rating which might be more accurate overall. A builder could easily wind up with a blank that is either at the low end or high end of the target specs and you'd be off the mark overall.

Again, I congratulate anyone who is willing to take this on. But just wanted to remind that consistency is key and that not all blanks from the same company of the same model will be exact.

Great idea Rick. I have a few on order and a couple I can dig out as well. As soon as I get my copy I'll read it and begin my testing. I'll be sure to send the data to you via email. Let's hope we get many others involved, this is a great chance to be a part of something that will benefit us all.
Ray

Rick

You've got mail

Rick,
William brings up a good idea. But if people find different results and they use the same system it would be possible to post all of the results for people to check out. It's a great idea, and as soon as I get the magazine and learn how to test the blanks correctly, I'll start sending you the data I get. I've always been interested in what exactly the blanks are in terms of a "weight", for fly rods. Thanks for the good idea and the time you'll take to contribute to such a venture.
-Peter

I have a few rods rated and will send data tonight when I get home.

I appreciate that you are willing to go to the effort.

I can not see any problem with doing the rating this way. Sure, there will be variances and we will only know the characteristics of individual blanks, but still it is better than nothing.

My suggestion would be to include all multiple ratings of the same rod or blank and use some sort of Id for the person who rated it, mabye name or a numerical assignment. That way a person could judge the quality of the data also.

I think finding inconsistancies among rod blanks will be the most interesting and possibly the most beneficial outcome of this endeavor. If a particular blank model or company has a low variance among the numbers, it may be a good indication of high quality control. If a particular blank has a wide range of calculated numbers, it might be one to stay away from. Anyone familiar with statistics knows about standard deviation, or how much each score deviates from the average. My guess is that blank models or manufactuers with low standard deviations for any particular blank are the ones with best quality control and possibly the best quality overall.

I wish I was a Web Guru, then I'd setup a site where you could submit the DBI's and then Browse the site for the posted blanks.

Anyone out there web page savy & has a server where this type of thing could be posted? It can't be too difficult to create a form and then have the results posted by Manufacturer, Model #, etc. Maybe Tom would be kind enough to supply a link (similar to the photo page & TackleWorks)?

Just a thought - Bob

Just make sure that when you rate the blanks you "zero" the tips. This means finding the high and low points and starting from a point in the center/middle. Any inherent tip sag should be included, but not the blank's natural warp or curve. You would want the straightest axis at 90 degress to the deflection.

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William, et all,

My intent was two-fold. First, if nothing else it would be a starting place. There always has to be a starting point and figured this is as good as any. Whether I received a big response or no response, I planned to put this database together for my own use on rods I tested. I figured by opening it to everyone else, it could be the start of a database.

Second, assuming a fair response any inconsistencies between builders would be 'averaged out'. I figured for a lot of these blanks there would be multiple builders doing it and I would keep a running average of the data. Also, I am making notes of which builder rated which rod. Thus, if you think one builders ratings are low compared to yours, then you can compare over a few rods and adjust. Again, it isn't perfect, but it is a starting point. Many have asked for a universal database where everyone could input their information and here it is. Once the info is put into the excel file, you can search, sort, or bunch the data any way you like. If you want a particular manufacturer, highlight the columns and sort by that column. It will alphabetize the manufacturers and you look at what you want.

No, it isn't an on-demand system like a web page would be. I don't have the time or experience to put a web page like that up. But, if someone were to set up a page I'd be more than happy to work with them.

Thanks,
Rick

I think it's a great idea. It would also provide a means for historical analysis of older rods.

Let's say that 5 years from now, somebody comes in to your shop and says that they'd like to have another rod made just like one they had made on an old "Johnson Brothers Exnel 754." And let's say that this particular blank is no longer made. Well, if it's in the database, you could easily cross reference to the DBI of another blank that matches it and be able to come up with something very, very similar.

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Count me in. As soon as I get my magazine, I'll get set up and provide you with the data for my inventory or blanks and rods which is about 40 from 7 different companies. Thanks for volunteering to do this Rick. This should be very helpful.