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Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Paul Wray (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: September 01, 2018 09:36PM

When you need to double or triple wrap a guide foot, Do you just reverse direction when you get to the end of wrap, or finish off the wrap, cut, then start a new wrap?

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 01, 2018 09:58PM

If you are not going to apply finish per layer, I generally just reverse direction and return from whence I came.

...................

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Paul Wray (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: September 01, 2018 11:12PM

Should I apply finisher for each layer?

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Ernest Horvath (---.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 02, 2018 07:03AM

I strongly advise a thin coat of finish on each layer to secure the wrap in place. Remove as much excess finish as possible, let it dry, then do your next wrap.
Be sure the guide foot tunnels get filled on the first wrap finish application. Yes it is more time consuming, but worth the extra effort when complete.

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 02, 2018 07:47AM

Epoxy finish will tend to soak thru a top layer and into a bottom layer, but only if you work reasonably fast. After some point it is setting enough that it won't easily penetrate so gauge this on your own rate of finishing speed. You might not need to finish each layer individually, then again you might.

..............

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---)
Date: September 02, 2018 01:15PM

Paul,
To insure that the finish is fresh for each guide - freeze the appropriate amount on a aluminum foil "tray" for each guide. Use a fresh tray for each guide and you can work as slow as you wish. It takes about 10-20 seconds for a tray just out of the freezer to be "thawed" enough to flow on. It really doesn't freeze solid - just slloooowwwws down the exothermic chemical reaction. I have used Theadmaster 24 hrs after mixed.
try it.
Herb

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 02, 2018 01:37PM

A finish cooler, as outlined in a recent past issue of RodMaker has solved most any difficulty from finish that sets up too fast or too slow. Now you can dial in your preferred pot life.

...........

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Paul Wray (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: September 02, 2018 02:42PM

Paul Wray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should I apply finisher for each layer?


How long should I wait for it to dry between layers?
Ffor example, I did a base wrap, then plan to place guide feet on, and then triple wrap the guide feet. Should I do the following?

Step 1 - Wrap base layer
Step 2 - Apply thin layer of finisher
Step 3 - Place guide feet and do first layer of guide wrap
Step 4- Apply thin layer of finisher
Step 5 - Place 2nd layer of guide wrap
Step 6 -Apply thin layer of finisher
Step 7 -Wrap 3rd layer to guide feet
Step 8 - Apply any decorative bands
Step 9 -Apply final coat of finisher

Questions :

- How long do I need to wait between layers of finish to dry?

- Should there be a Step 10, which is apply 2nd coat of finisher as final?

This is my first rod, so this process is new to me. I am building a Black Hole 450g rod, and plan to use a Shimano torsa 30, with BFS Cam, so I will be putting up to 50lbs of drag, and using 110lb. Braid. I plan to give this rod mortal @#$%&, so I figured I need the triple wraps. You think I need the triple wraps?

Will be using Size D, Color Fast ProWrap. Will be using ProKote finisher.

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 02, 2018 06:18PM

Tom,
I am sure you remember that I took a lot of "heat" 4-5 years ago when I first suggested the freezer to delay curing. I guess I should have patented it :-))
Herb

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 02, 2018 07:16PM

The freezer isn't really needed if you go the "cooler" route, although a lot of guys use that technique, including Bill Falconer who wrote an article on it some years back. Either way, the lower the temp, the longer the pot lot you have. Use what works for you.

...........

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 02, 2018 07:29PM

I remember that Dale Clemons suggested freezing your unused epoxy mix for later use. This was probably over 40 yrs ago.
Norm

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 02, 2018 07:32PM

That was for his repackaged solvent based "epoxy" finish which he called Crystal Coat. It's still made today in TN but the name escapes me at the moment.

................

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 02, 2018 07:54PM

Yes, I liked crystal coat for clear coating blanks, it was very thin and light and you could apply it like Permagloss. Because it was so thin it took several coats for rod wraps, but at the time it was just about the only game in town. I would like to know it's repackaged name, if you remember. The freezer method also works with modern epoxies. On hot days I've used cold packs to extend the working time and have done so for years.
Norm

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 02, 2018 09:20PM

Klass Kote.

..............

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Paul Wray (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: September 02, 2018 09:25PM

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul,
> To insure that the finish is fresh for each guide
> - freeze the appropriate amount on a aluminum foil
> "tray" for each guide. Use a fresh tray for each
> guide and you can work as slow as you wish. It
> takes about 10-20 seconds for a tray just out of
> the freezer to be "thawed" enough to flow on. It
> really doesn't freeze solid - just slloooowwwws
> down the exothermic chemical reaction. I have
> used Theadmaster 24 hrs after mixed.
> try it.
> Herb

I will certainly try this. I went ahead and used 1 ml of Part A and 1 ml of Part B to just glazed over the under wrap. Its been spinning for about 4 hours now. It looks great, and really made the color pop. Either way, I mixed the perfect amount, based solely off a guess. I will put the guides on tomorrow, and 2nd coat of epoxy.

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Chuck McIntyre (---)
Date: September 02, 2018 09:57PM

A simple search of the Forum turned up the name Klass Kote. I used Crystal Coat and all dates.

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 02, 2018 10:00PM

Thanks Tom! Did not realize that Klass Kote is the same stuff as crystal coat. have thought about getting some for a while but never got around to it. May have to buy somee for old time sake.
Norm.

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 01:16PM

Hello All.

The article "Finish Cooler" by Chuck Brener is in Vol.- 19, Issue - 5, Page - 12.

The article by Bill Falconer is "Freeze Frame Guide Finishing" Vol.-18, Issue - 1, Page - 22.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

Bridgeton, NC.

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Paul Wray (138.162.8.---)
Date: September 04, 2018 09:23AM

What would you use the Klass Kote (Crystal Coat) for? Is this the really thin coating that goes over entire blank?

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Re: Double and Triple wrap Guides Question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: September 04, 2018 10:37AM

Yes Crystal Coat/Klass Kote can be used used a a rod finish if wiped on to give a very thin coat. I used Crystal coat many years ago to refinish some old rods and it worked quite well. Once Clemons folded I moved to Permagloss which does an excellent job if wiped on. Ralph Quinn has an article in the library and he gives his comment on the use of Permagloss, Crystal Coat, and others for refinishing Rods.. [www.rodbuilding.org]
Norm

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