Posted by: David Sytsma (---.dhcp.klmz.mi.charter.com)
Date: July 06, 2017 02:49PM

Here is my issue. I build a lot of saltwater rods, many which get used on long range boats. For years I haven't had any problems but now some of my builds are coming back to me with rusting guide frames. From asking questions, I'm discovering that most of the rusted frames have been subjected to lengthy stretches of use without attempts to periodically rinse the rods off with fresh water or using de-salting compounds like Salt-A-Way. I use Fuji MN guides most of the time because they have always performed well. The guide feet get ground prior to mounting as is customary. In the latest issue of Rodmaker there was an ad from Fuji that they are releasing a frame material that is 5 times more corrosion resistant than stainless at an Alconite price. So I called Anglers Resource to inquire. Here's what the representative said: Yes, they have that material, it will be released for distribution after ICAST, and it's only available in the K series. The representative then asked if I ground my guide feet; I said yes, it's what you usually need to do to get a good thread transfer up onto the guide foot when you're wrapping. The rep then said that if you grind the guide feet on anything other than titanium guides, you're removing the coating, exposing the frame material, and it WILL eventually rust in a salt environment. That obviously includes the new Fuji frame material. Even if you are meticulous in assuring that the tunnels are filled and the feet are fully encapsulated, the risk is always there.

I'm considering using a different brand of guide, both in titanium and stainless steel material for saltwater usage. Freshwater isn't really a problem environment most of the time. I've got it narrowed down to about four manufacturers, one that pre-grinds their guide feet, which I assume occurs prior to the coating process if the guide is stainless steel (obviously titanium isn't an issue with foot grinding; it doesn't rust). What I would like to know is if anyone has had any issues with any manufacturer more than another with rings popping out. Obviously I can't call them and ask. If you can't drop names on this site, ask me to unhide my email. I appreciate your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks.

Dave Sytsma

sent you a mail on how I skinned that cat/problem

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

David, you would do well to ask in other areas. For example, welders know a lot about the pitfalls of grinding stainless as well as using various items to mark it. I could tell you what I know but why bother when I am one voice that might not be heard?

316 stainless is the superior grade. Unless they are offering something new Fuji doesn't use it. 316 requires you abide by all the rules you would with any stainless....like no markers with chlorides and not grinding with a wheel with imbedded iron.

Many would like you to consider titanium as something that will never corrode/rust in spite of failure to provide any level of normal care. Titanium pretty much has to be an alloy in a guide frame so don't buy all the hype.

There are trade offs between strength and corrosion resistance. There are certain practices that can be harmful. You need to learn what these are to make smart choices. That said the Fuji MNSG is a time proven guide and any problems are related to lack of normal care and/or improper installation/prep like grinding/marking.

So get rid of the sharpies and use virgin carborundum grinding wheels. For customers that aren't willing to rinse consider a 316 frame. Frankly I'd rather make two wraps of D thread than grind the guide feet. I also find the black frames stand up a little better.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Fuji's new Corrosion Control finish is a multi-step process that acts on the surface of the stainless to create the layer of protection. Grinding the layer away will expose untreated stainless which will perform (and corrode) like regular stainless steel. Left in tact, this layer resists corrosion up to 7 times longer in corrosion tank testing than regular stainless guides. Tests are being conducted to compare CC against a number of different stainless grades and the early results look very promising.

Bottom line, any stainless with 7 times the corrosion resistance of untreated stainless should certainly be of interest to the saltwater crowd. Surely grinding the foot can't be more important than extending the life of stainless 7 fold.

Most importantly, Fuji has rolled this product out across the K-Series line with ALCONITE® rings at THE SAME PRICE as standard stainless/ALCONITE®.

AND...to be sure that K-Series guides are an option for even the most economical projects, Fuji is introducing a new "FazLite™" ring in K-Series Corrosion Control™ frames that will be offered BELOW ALCONITE® prices.

It should be a very exciting ICAST!!!

I do not grind the foot of any guide that will be used in salt water.
Jim, I am looking forward to trying these CC guides. If I remember correctly you had a few samples at the ICRBE in Feb. and they looked great. When will they be avaible for sale? What is the material used in the Fazlite ring? Still do not know why Fuji discontinued the titanium/Alconite guides.
Norm

Sounds, Like what is commonly used in the aerospace metal finishing industries, known as {passivating} of the material, removing any microscopic iron particles in the surface that commonly occur in the making manufacturing and in the machining or stamping process of stainless, And yes those microscopic iron particles will cause rusting. It's not a coating at all. More like a surface conversion or purification, It is done in heated Nitric acid, one method or heated Citric acid method Both being {PH Critical}, With a following neutralizing process, I worked in the aerospace metal finishing field for 37 years, now retired. I'm really surprised that it took this long for this process to make it to Stainless Rod Guide manufactures?? As It is quite cheap to implement, And none of the bath make-up is very costly at all. And the volume of guides that could be processed at one time would could be measured in the 10's of thousands depending on size, With many loads being processed per Bath Life . I sure wouldn't expect it to add much dollar wise to a set of Guides due to the volume that can be processed at one time. Jaa

Jay, very that is very interesting, and that may be the reason the CC guides are being offered at the same price as regular Alconite guides. Back in my research scientist days the autoclaves we used had undergone passivation to make them corrosion resistant. Never saw corrosion on them in spite of the heat and saline solutions used. Thanks for the information.
Norm

Nice post Jay. If I were to nitpick any part I might argue that "passivating" stainless does create a "coating" of nickel and chormium......but we would be mincing words. Again, nice post Sir.

Bottom line guys, grinding stainless can/will lead to rust/corrosion. Now it is possible to re-passivate after dressing the guide feet. It won't be as good as nitric/citric acid, but it beats nothing. However if you grind with a wheel contaminated with iron you are pretty much screwed.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Norm and Jim,

I'm re-thinking the necessity of always grinding guide feet. I'll be spending some quality time in the shop tomorrow morning with a variety of guide sizes and thread choices to come up with a means of wrapping without grinding. Sometimes it can be hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Concerning grinding, I've run the gamut of filing with bastard files, needle files, and Dremel bits. The last couple of years the best system I found was using the Worksharp knife sharpener I've got with the green belt; finishing with the purple. Easy to control and very effective.

I'm looking forward to checking out the CC guides. I called one of my suppliers today and they seemed to think they would have them available in a couple of weeks. If so, I can wait that long.

Jim, I've been focused on the MN and HB series and haven't had the opportunity to try the K series yet. Would these perform as well or better on 40-80# class boat rods? Thanks for your input.