I have caught Tarpon over 100# on a fly rod (guides on the bottom) and none have moved, let alone come loose. and they are single foot guides as well.

Because the MicroWaves sit a bit higher, they are very well suited for a spiral wrap. I always use a locking wrap on the running guides, but pulling out a guide has never been an issue. Static load the blank, and see where the guides lay. When I build with a spiral wrap, I usually start with one extra guide than a traditional wrap, and go from there.

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not familiar with building or using spiral
> wrapped rods. I thought the guides started on one
> side of the blank and wound around to the other.
> In my mind's eye I imagined the line might come in
> contact with the blank as the line wound around
> it, especially if the blank were deeply bent and
> the guides were very small. Apparently my
> imagination is at fault. I look forward to
> watching a spiral wrap rod performing on a big
> tuna or grouper.

In fact, that is where the spiral rods perform the best. There is 100 years of precedent proving the worth of spiral wrapped rods in heavy duty fishing situations.

You don't have to "take" the line from the top of the rod to the bottom - it will go there naturally if you let it, which was the point of the "Simple Spiral" wrap method.

...........................

as a rookie rodbuilder, i know nothing about spiral wrapped guides. but i have built two rods, spinning and casting, with the airwave guides, and have been very pleased with the performance of the guides. better distance, less 'rod slap' on the spinning rod. better distance on the casting model as well. i did a direct comparison of the airwave to ceramic guides using two identical spinning blanks, reels, and light weight baits. the airwaves cast 5 ' further almost every single time .

Spiral wrapped rods actually perform better than conventional wrapped rods when it comes to fighting big tuna or grouper. It prevents rod torque when under heavy load. This was the major reason why spiral wrapped rods became popular with big game fishermen. It was also found that they also cast well. The first time I tried spiral wrapped rod was while tuna fishing, and the spiral wrapped rod really had a great advantage over a traditional rod when fighting powerful fish. For fresh water bass fishing the advantages are not so noticible because of the size of fish involved, but they do work very well. As Tom alludes to, many fishermen are unwilling to try a spiral wrapped rod because of the non-traditional look.
As far a microwave guides for a spiral build are concerned, I am sure they will work, but I am not sure if they will offer any advantage over regular guides. I have tested the microwave casting guide set up against against a Fuji KR casting guide set up on non spiral bass rods and did not see any advantages of one over the others, they both worked very well. The only way to convince yourself it to experiment with one vs the other.
Norm

Phil, you are correct, on a casting setup, after the stripper guide, the next one or two spiral down to the underside of the rod. Another name for this is the “Acid wrap”. Who knows, maybe there has been a rod builder on acid who spiraled his guides up to the top on a spinning set up as well.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Some spiral wrap systems use these "transition guides" while others don't use any. They're actually not necessary as the line will go to the bottom of the rod on its own.

You should probably do a search of the archives here on "spiral wrap" as it has been covered in depth over many years.

...................

Yet a third name for spiral wrapped rods is Roberts wrapped. Depends on number of transition guides etc. There have been attempts to use just a guide ring (mounted on the blank) as the transition as well.

Chris Richer
Iroquois ON

Thanks to all responding with such good information, opinions and insight. I am intrigued with the concept of how to get the line down to the bottom of a rod where many of us believe it will perform best but needed information and opinions as I have yet to see one on a party boat during numerous trips to and around the islands here in So Cal and none of my fishing acquaintances own one. Additionally, I have only seen one spiral wrapped rod at one of the larger tackle stores out here. I guess we are slow learners out here in LALALand.
But to avoid the need to spiral the first one or two guides around the blank down to the bottom, I will drill a hole through the blank, angled forward from top to bottom and bond in a composite tube to carry the line directly from the reel on top to the first guide on the bottom. Just kidding, I was seeing if you were paying attention. Remember, I am the Over-Thinker, and given the time or incentive, I can come up with all kinds of dung (is that legal to say, Tom?). We all need to keep ourselves and others around us amused or life can become a real drag!
Too many to single out, but thanks to all (so far) for responding. You have afforded me with fuel for thought, and I do like to think.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

The line will go to the bottom of the rod all by itself - that's where it wants to be. A single guide or some other surface can be located so as to keep the line from rubbing the blank, or older methods such as the Revolver, O'Quinn, Roberts, etc., can be used. There is a ton of good information on these and other spiral wrap methods to be found in the archives, the online library page here, etc.

..............

Are spiral-wrapped fly rods, casting rods, or spinning rods legal to use in casting contests for these respective types of casting? If so, do spiral wrapped rods win all or most of these contests? The advantages of "guides on the bottom" for fighting really big fish, especially "lifting" them, are easy to understand. It is difficult for me to imagine the advantages of forcing a line NOT to travel in a straight path along a blank during the cast.

Good questions, Phil. I am interested in learning from the replies.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

After my last post, Phil’s questions got me thinking (Oh no, here I go again). I am a trout or tuna kind of angler, so watch the bass tournaments infrequently at best. How many bass, or walleye for that matter, tour guys use MicroWave guides and/or acid wraps?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Phil,

Actually the line does travel in a straight path. Forget where the rod is and just picture the line. It travels straight in the Simple Spiral and mostly so in the O'Quinn method.

Fly and spinning rods are never spiral wrapped - the guides are already on the bottom of the rod.

Spiral wrapped rods do not cast further than conventionally wrapped casting rods, but they cast at least as far.

The Spiral Wrap was developed to eliminate rod twist and angler effort in casting rods. Here is an article from the library you might be interested in: [www.rodbuilding.org]

................

I've only built less than a dozen rods to date and a spiral wrap 20-25lb conventional is my hands down favorite by far.
One advantage versus guides on top is that guides on top typically require an extra guide especially in the tip where the rod bends more versus typical spinning rod.
even if you need an "extra' guide in the spiral part you end up with less weight in the tip which is where it matters most
I also enjoy getting the question 'is that rod broken.?" I simply answer 'No" and let the confusion linger for a while before offering a welcome to custom rod building intro, which leads to new members on this forum.

After 4 years of using spiral wrapped rods in Prince Edward Island we have found that it works best when configured with short bent unibutts. We fish standup for these giant bluefin tuna and have caught them up to 900 lbs thus far. We fish using stand up harness and pads so the bent butt works the best over the straight butt. This is especially true when the fish is up and down and under the boat making their huge tuna circles. Spiral wrap with SIC guides is best for these fish as it greatly reduces torque on the rod over conventionally wrapped guides. This is especially more true when comparing SIC guides with large roller guides. The roller guides exerts too much twisting of the blank and causes failure ( breakage ). We know of one spiral wrapped rod that broke but it was a straight butt and broke when the fish spiraled under the boat resulting in a high stick bend in the rod. The angle of the bent butt prevents this high sticking position and thus far we have not had any failures although we caught 10 giants a couple of weeks ago.Check out the videos posted on facebook last week and this.

Mel, impressive reply and thanks. I don’t know if I am qualified to be the one to wake up the SoCal salt water guys to acid wrapped rods. Maybe they are more into pot than acid! I know I certainly WAS, 40 years ago. Joking aside, even though only seeing one spiral wrap on display in a tackle store out here while never on a party boat, I am 95% convinced to build this 9’6” vintage Garcia Conolon FG rod while I’m on acid. Hope I don’t experience a “bad trip”.
Tom, with all due respect, I am confused. “It travels straight in a simple spiral” seems to be a contradiction of terms.
I would still like to hear responses to my previous post regarding how many pro bass and walleye tour guys use MicroWave guides and/or spiral wraps. Anyone still with me?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark,
Aaron Martens is fishing Enigma rods with the Microwave system on them but I don't know if he has any that are acid style. There is a picture of him holding an Enigma spinning rod in the last BASS Times that clearly shows the Microwave butt guide.

Tom

Mark,

It might sound like a contradiction in terms, but it's not. The line doesn't spiral around the blank - it just passes by it on one side. Once you set one up and look at it you'll see what I mean.

.................

Mark, I am from the West Coast living in Torrance CA. I just happen to like to fish PEI and I have been using the acid wrap for over 15 years now. In fact, my good friend Jim Racela coined the term " acid wrap " when a deck hand on a west coast boat happened to see him fishing a spiral wrapped rod. His comments were that who ever built that rod must have been on acid thus the name.
I just posted a photo in the Miscellaneous catagory of the acid under load at PEI in photos if you care to see how the rod bends and the line in relation to the blank.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2016 12:18PM by Mel Shimizu.