Has anyone else noticed a trend shifting back to full length grips on casting rods for bass? In the last month or so, I've had a couple dozen or so requests to either build with full length grips or to replace split grips with full length cork. It seems like the guys in this region just can't get away from the old style Loomis stuff they are used to fishing and continue to think they are the best. I've clearly explained the advantages of the split grips, yet I still get the same response of "the full length is more comfortable to me". I even went as far to build up a full length carbon grips to let them see the advantage of the carbon and the stubborn goats just won't go away from the cork. I guess it just means that it makes it easier to catch the fish they miss when I fish against them in tournaments.

What are the advantages of split grips?

Thomas,
I am with the group that prefer a full length grip on a rod.

I am also in the group that prefers a continuous reel seat with no openings in the reel seat.

I also am in the group that prefers the use of only cork in a grip.

One of the things that make the world go around. Every one has his/her personal wishes.

Just enjoy the opportunity to build a rod for a person in the way that that person wishes the rod to be built.

You will have a happy repeat customer if you fully satisfy that person's wishes.

Good luck

p.s.
I will go along with the group asking the question. What is the advantage of a split grip? What is the advantage of a carbon grip?

Simply put, none of the typical answers work for myself to cause me to change my mind on the way that I like a fishing rod to feel in my hand during the use of the rod.

I think the advantages of split grips are minimal at best (functionally). The personal preferences of the angler FAR outweigh any possible advantages. Simply show them the options and give them what they want.

Possible advantages: better balance, lower cost due to minimizing cork usage, a little lighter, cool contemporary look, room for labeling/inscriptions/decals between the grip and butt knob, another possible position for the hook keeper, better feel.

Possible disadvantages: worse feel, probably not as practical for rod holders, requires two more winding checks depending on design/execution, may look goofy (like a Transformer toy) with all the flashy winding checks

Thomas

I enjoyed your post, I never laughed so hard. I didn't realize that a split grip was the difference between catching fish and not catching fish. I always thought it was an understanding of the habits of the species, water conditions, habitat structure, currents, temperature, barometric pressure, lure selection, lure presentation, a natural instinct, an accumulation of years of experience and fishing equipment that enabled one to catch fish.

Notice I listed fishing equipment last because in MY OPINION it is the least important, because when one gets right down to it one can catch fish with a hand line (and I have) .

I agree with Roger all of us have our own preferences and should be respected.

The customer should be given and explained all the options but the bottom line is it is the customers choice.

I put myself into that category of preferring the full length grip, and I take issue with being labled a "stubborn old goat" because I don't share your views.

I too will be interested in what you consider an advantage with split grips.

PS I am a stubborn "OLD GOAT" but only my wife can call me that.

John

There is no advantage to split grips imo. Overall balance of the build is far more important if you ask me. It's personal preference and has nothing to do with old school, G Loomis, etc. Split grips feel awkward to me unless the rear grip is large enough to accommodate my entire hand. I'm also less accurate with split grips, and accuracy is more important than grip material and design.

John, glad you got a chuckle out of it. I never meant for it to be understood that split grips meant the difference between catching fish or not catching them. If only it could be that simple!! I do agree with you that all of what you have listed and more make for a successful outing. I will say that the benefit of carbon grips IMO will make a difference when the bite is super subtle. For me the advantages are all that Michael has listed with the reduction in overall weight being the most important. The reduced overall weight leads to a more efficient rod for the task at hand. For me the carbon is hands down more sensitive than the cork. It may just be a mental thing for me but it works so I will take it.

I do respect the opinions and preferences of others and again hope that I did not come across as one that does respect others opinions. I lay out all of the options that I have for the customer and let them decide from there. I am more than happy to give them what they would like. I was simply inquiring if many had seen a trend towards full length grips?

Sorry to any who took offense to the "stubborn goat" comment, however, if the shoe fits...... and for me it fits quite well so I fall into that category as well and as such felt I could use analogy. I will say that I did not call anyone "old", check my original post.

Michael, I agree with you regarding the goofy look with all of the extra winding checks, that is why I don't use them for the majority of my builds unless requested by the customer. I taper the grips straight to the blank so that they can be eliminated.

I see that I've ruffled a few feathers and again will apologize for doing so. The intent of the post was to see if many see the trend towards full length grips or split grips.

Have a good weekend.
Tom

Rich Forhan was largely instrumental in the rise of split-grips in bass fishing rods. His purpose was to eliminate that which wasn't being used, and in so many cases, the center portion of the rear grip on a bass rod serves no purpose (not always, but in many cases that's most of the time). He also eliminated the fore grip which had become largely ceremonial as the angler's hand never came into contact with it during casting or fish fighting. Overall, these omissions led to rods that were lighter and therefore more sensitive.

Rich never said that a split-grip, no-fore grip rod was the only way to build bass rods - this always depends on the particular task the rod is being used for. Within the range of task specific uses he was aiming at it's safe to say that the split-grip rod offers more advantages than disadvantages (if any) but this is again only within a specific range of use. It was never touted as being "better" for all uses, all rods and all fishermen.

Finally, if you have an angler that insists on a full rear grip, I think I'd give it to him.


.....................

Tom,
I still have a rod that Rich built and cherish it. I hope that I didn't come across as to say they way in which Rich helped create is the only way to build, it is certainly my preferred method for my applications, but as you pointed out there are certainly situations where a full grip is advantageous.

Tom, you make a very good point, the customer is always right (generally)and it is my duty as a builder to give them what they want as long as I am capable. I am grateful to have the opportunity to give them what they would like. I get paid no matter what way they want their rod built and if it makes them happy, I am happy.

Have a good weekend.
Tom

Very true, all you can do is advise them as to what you think will work best, and why, and then let them make the final decision.

...............

One last comment that made sense to me when it first came up on this forum, and that is that sensitivity of the grip on a casting rod is less important than other factors in grip design since most people are palming during the actual fishing act and a direct contact between the reel and the reel seat gives very good sensitivity. I think most people who don't like carbon fiber have not tried them. Hard surfaces of the right shape are more comfortable than less than optimum shapes in cork. Because of cork's properties it is not always possible to get the optimum shape, as in blending the butt knob into the blank, as Thomas mentioned. And really, cork is not soft at all.

When properly executed, a split grip should not be uncomfortable to the angler. As Tom mentioned, it is about removing material that doesn't need to be there. If your split grips are not turning out comfortable, then you are likely not giving proper consideration to ergonomics. The lengths of many mass produced split grips are not always sufficient.

Many of the benefits have been mentioned above, but one I did not see is that a split grip allows a builder to balance a rod to the angler's preference resulting in a rod with a lower overall weight. Also, a split grip encourages proper hand placement for 2-hand casts.

I prefer full grips on casting rods 6' and shorter, because I tend to use 7" rear grips, and there is little or no material to remove when I consider the ergonomics of the grip, because I like to two-hand cast a lot of the time. Once I get to rods 6'6" and longer for bass fishing, I use about a 9" rear grip, and there is a little material that can be removed in those builds.

In the end, it is all up to personal preference. After all, I don't get along well with split reel seats.

Oh, and in regard to winding checks, the only time I use them is when they are requested, or there is a flaw in the grip that needs covered up. I like the aesthetics they give a rod, but I can't bring myself to put them on my rods, and use thread trim bands instead.

Joe

The first split grips I ever saw were on surf rods, and this was done to save money by using less cork. For me there has been a definite trend toward building rods with split grips, I rarely have anyone who wants a full length grip, not even the "stubborn or old goats".. Most people like a rear grip that is long enough for their hand to completely contact. On the other hand, I like a very short rear grip so the heel of my hand contacts the blank. I also like carbon fiber grips, but most of the people I build for like cork or Winn grips. No body wants an EVA grip.. Carbon fiber grips have been a tough sale for me, most think they may be to slick, these are my "stubborn goats". Almost everyone one wants a blank exposed reel seat for their casting rods, either a split reel seat or a one piece seat with an exposed blank cut out. A custom fishing rod is a personal tool made according to what the person wants and likes. If they are happy so am I.
Norm

Carbon fiber grips aren't slick, and never as close to slick as cork is. Smooth and slick are not the same thing. But it does take some convincing.

Put a round ball on the butt end of your rods and don't look back... It is the one ergonomically correct grip that will never let you down.

..............

Tom, Like I said I like carbon fiber grips very much, and I finish them with permagloss like you suggested in your video. Looks good and feels good, but still hard to convince some to try them. I have even sprayed water on the grip to show them they are not slick when wet, but when compared to a wet Winn grip they choose the Winn grip..What I need to do is to make a loaner with carbon fiber grip so a person can fish with it for a day or two, just afraid I may never get it back. Never tried the ball butt, that might be an even harder sell, may need to put one on a rod to see how it looks and feels.

Norm

First off, I think it's pretty clear from my posts in threads that concern rod and reel balance, that I feel a balanced rod and reel combination for slack and semi slack line techniques, is far more important than the total weight of the rod and reel combination itself. Not only in detecting bites, but in actually fishing with the rod and reel in question.

It is that belief that leads me to say that for the above mentioned techniques, there isn't any part of a rear grip that isn't being used. The rear grip adds weight, and that weight helps to balance a rod and reel combination. If balance isn't important to you, that's fine. If balanced good enough, is ok by you, that's fine too. As has been mentioned already ..... we all have our preferences.

As far as the to be or not to be of full versus split rear grip goes, I do as Joe does. 6' and under, full rear grip. 6'6" and up, split rear grip. If it's a rod that I'll be building for a line under tension technique, then I'm building it with a split grip to reduce the overall weight of the rod. If it's a rod I'm building for a slack or semi slack line technique, I'm going to end up adding weight at the butt of the rod to insure proper balance, so in essence, I'm building it with a split rear grip because I think they look cool.

I for one love EVA as a grip material. It's inexpensive. It's easy to work with. Easy to maintain. And offers exceptional grip and comfort in every type of weather, and I think it looks good. Plus as Michael mentioned (and I may be the one he saw mention it) I palm my reel and reel seat on a casting rod, and really on a spinning rod you're pretty much holding the reel seat. so for those reasons I believe that the vibration absorbing properties of EVA means very little if anything at all.

I will say that I have yet to try a carbon fiber rear grip, but I surely will at some point in the future. They just look too cool to not build at least one rod with one. And who knows, it may change my mind about the importance of grip material in a rod's sensitivity.

It's all about balance. For tip down applications (spoon/spinnerbait) having less weight at the butt of the rod makes for a more comfortable solution.
It won't help you catch more fish.

I suspect the advantage of a full-length versus a split grip depends a whole lot on personal opinion and very little upon verifiable results. I also suspect in the near future the grips on working rods will be synthetic and cork grips, like bamboo, will be confined to wall-hanging decoration rods.

I suspect the advantage of a full-length versus a split grip depends a whole lot on personal opinion and very little upon verifiable results. I also suspect in the near future the grips on working rods will be synthetic and cork grips, like bamboo, will be confined to wall-hanging decoration rods.