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shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Phil Ewanicki
(---.res.bhn.net)
Date: May 21, 2016 02:27PM
So-called "shock waves" in fly lines during a cast are detrimental to both the distance and accuracy of the cast. I think these waves are generated in the line while it is in the guide train, not while the line is in thin air. Is there any way the number, placement, or size of fly rod guides could minimize the size or number of "shock waves" in a fly line while it is being cast? I am surprised that marketers have not addressed this problem. Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
roger wilson
(---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 21, 2016 02:38PM
Phil,
How do you know for sure that fly rod manufacturers have not addressed the issue? Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: May 21, 2016 06:02PM
I have felt that it's caused by rod "bounce" at the end of the forward cast and therefore not really anything to do with guide placement but with either the casting stroke or oscillation of the fly rod after the "stop."
...................... Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Michael Danek
(---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 21, 2016 06:05PM
Marketers don't address problems. Engineers do. Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Phil Ewanicki
(---.res.bhn.net)
Date: May 21, 2016 06:27PM
Rod marketers and/or engineers have addressed much more intangible problems such as "feel" and "sensitivity" and "soulful action" to name but a few. Shock waves are concrete problems, visible to both the eye and the camera. They may be entirely the product of the expertise (or lack thereof) of the caster, but I can't help but hope that a better rod could at least minimize this problem. Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
bill boettcher
(---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 21, 2016 07:09PM
Or playing with different lines to see which the blank or rod casts better with
What ever rod you are using -- try up-lining it and see if it helps Most of the time one is using the wrong line weight on said rod Bill - willierods.com Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: May 21, 2016 08:51PM
Take any rod with which you are experience rod "bounce" or "shock waves" and have a half dozen good fly casters use it and note if the same bounce or shock wave appears. If it has anything to do with the rod, then the same shock wave should occur across the use of various persons casting the rod. If not, then it's not likely a result of anything to do with the rod.
............. Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
bill boettcher
(---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 21, 2016 10:03PM
It is the person casting the rod
I never herd of any shock waves before If the rod did not cast well I changed the lime Wher does this stuff come up from anyway ??? Bill - willierods.com Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Herb Ladenheim
(---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 22, 2016 09:35AM
Bill is correct.
Shock waves come from casting stroke. Try toning down your energy a little. Or - lengthen your strike dramatically - like a sideways stroke pointing rod tip directly at back cast AND forward cast. You can use more energy with a longer stroke Up-lining will work also because you are absorbing some of the extra energy with the weight of the heavier flyline. Herb Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Eugene Moore
(---.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
Date: May 22, 2016 10:59AM
Phil,
My experience is that the waves are caused by a poorly designed blank taper. The improvements are all working around the problem. Buy a blank with a better taper design. Reduce inertia of the guides train. Reduce acceleration of the casting stroke. Many casters will not experience a problem as they don't attempt to "tighten" the casting loop. If you're looking for performance, look elsewhere for your blank. The taper design will allow only so much before folding. Gene Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
bill boettcher
(---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 22, 2016 11:03AM
With what you have now If you have a few friends that fly fish try to find one heavier line and just try it You can also go lower Try to get a line for the blank and the way you cast Bill - willierods.com Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Norman Miller
(---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 22, 2016 12:02PM
Although I am not a fly fishing fanatic, I enjoy fly fishing and have been doing it for a long time. However, this is the first time I have heard the term "shock waves" applied to fly fishing. What is it? Might have experienced it but never knew it due to my ignorance!
Norm Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
bill boettcher
(---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 22, 2016 01:22PM
Reading his post again I started to wonder if what he is experiencing is dirty line and guides possibly rod If they are not clean and slippery the line maybe sort of sticking to the blank guides I usually clean the line two times during a 6 hour of fishing Less if catching Bill - willierods.com Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Herb Ladenheim
(---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 22, 2016 06:29PM
Bill,
I don't think so. Lots of casters throw shock waves into their line. What you suggest is same as controlling lines velocity with line hand. That would eliminate shock waves - not cause them. Herb Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
bill boettcher
(---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 22, 2016 06:42PM
Like said Never herd of shock waves before and that was just a thought ?? Bill - willierods.com Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Donald Becker
(---.hawaiiantel.net)
Date: May 23, 2016 03:37AM
[www.youtube.com]
Pay attention to the rod tip during the slow motion sections. The oscillations will rob some distance and can feedback to the reel. Don Becker Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Eugene Moore
(---.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
Date: May 23, 2016 09:53AM
Phil,
The upper tier of manufacturers is aware of the problem and has gone to considerable length to answer it. Better more consistent taper designs, improved materials and construction methods, light wire guides at the tip, single foot guides where required. Sage, St Croix and G Loomis among others are touting improved dynamics (better damping and accuracy characteristics). It might be possible to generally analyze the blank taper prior to build. Haven't tried it yet, but the taper design should be based on position of the center of mass of the bare assembled blank. Need to analyze some bare blanks to determine to distance from the butt to the assembled center mass. This may correspond to a ratio that could alert you of potential problems prior to building. Gene Re: shock waves and guides
Posted by:
Phil Ewanicki
(---.res.bhn.net)
Date: May 23, 2016 11:33AM
You probably can't see the shock waves in the line you cast but an observer or camera viewing the cast at a 90 degree angle can. I too suspect that taper design and the harmonics they produce in the rod blank may cause one rod to cast a smoother line than another. And shock waves can be viewed, recorded and measured, not just "felt" or "sensed" or imagined. I can still cast a fly line and some backing but I appreciate the tips. Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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