I have an older 11 foot surf rod. It is a Daiwa rod, not sure of the specs, and hasn't seen much use because it obviously has a serious flaw in it someplace. It will not cast any bait, lure, weight, or line composition on any spin reel 45 to 60 series, without the dreaded wind knot (even on a calm day) on a mid to strong power cast. That consequently keeps it in the rack and not used.
My question is, what causes the wind knot to happen? Is it guide placement/size combination that cause it? Maybe reel seat angle? Some have said, the wind knot is the effect of the line no matter what composition it is, trying to accelerate past the stripper guide and then twist up and pass thru the train to get caught in the running guides and hang up, causing a mess and or loosing the leader rig or lure. This sounds to me like a stripper guide too far down the blank, allowing the line to spin out far off the blank, and loop past the stripper.
Is it just a mater of removing the guides, and repositioning them, as well as check the reel seat angle to fix this? I would like to use the rod, if it could be made more friendly. Since it hasn't been used for that reason, it is still like a new rod!
Mark

Is this a spinning or casting rod?

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Spinning rod. It is the eliminator 2 piece surf. I have tried all different reels, all different lines, it still throws a bird nest out the guides. I'm not the greatest surf caster in the world, but I have not any problem with 6 other rod and reel combos I have. Something seems wrong with the rod in its layout. I watch carefully for any slack or dig in on the reels. It doesn't seem to be a product of poor line lay. Thanks Tom!
Mark

Normally it's the line getting a little slack and looping on the reel that causes a bird's nest on a spinning rod. However, if that reel doesn't do it on your other rods, it's time to look at something else.

Measure the distance from the reel to the butt guide and compare against your other similar spinning rods. If it seems way out of the norm you might try removing it and taping it on in a different location, one that is more along the lines of what you have on your other rods. If the butt guide size and distance seem similar to your other rods, then we'll have to look at something else. I think this is a situation where you'll have to cross off one item at a time.

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x10 on Tom's comments.

Lay this surf rod on a table next to another surf rod that works perfectly.

See what is different about the rod that is not working for you. I am guessing that one guide is the wrong size or is in the wrong place.

Be safe

Good idea! I have a couple others similar length and I will see what the average is for that distance. I think I might remove the spool from one of the 6000 series reels and check the alignment of the spool axle to the guides on a straight edge, and see if there is any trouble with reel alignment as well.
Thanks Tom! Roger also!
Mark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2016 02:23PM by Mark Schuman.

Mark,
Also, be sure to check the guide sizes and placement with another working rod.

I would think that a wind knot would be made worse if the line spiral coming off of the reel is necked down at the wrong location, or not necked down a quickly as needed that would end up causing a jam up of a line spiral in the next guide.

If you could do further testing and find a particular guide that the wind knots are hanging on, maybe for a test, you could just cut that particular guide off of the rod and do some more test casting.

[surfishmexico.pbworks.com]

[360tuna.com]

[www.getbentsportfishing.com]

The other thing that was pointed out, is that it may be possible that you have some line twists on your reel that then show up as wind knots on your next cast. As the following article states - put on a heavier casting plug, fling out the line into the water and then quickly reel it back to get the loops out of the line. Of course, if you are in a boat, and have this issue, you just remove all terminal tackle from the end of the line, then let all of the line out and off of the reel and drag the bare line in the water for a 1/4 mile behind the boat and then, with the rod tip down, just reel the line back on the reel against the drag of the water to have all of the line twists removed and the line tightly packed back on the spool.

[www.wmi.org]



Be safe



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2016 03:02PM by roger wilson.

Don't know if this is the same thing but I had a problem with a light rod and loops on the reel
I put a swivel on the line and then a leader to the bait or lure I found the lure when tied directly to the line was twisting when I retrieved it and causing line twist causing loops

I would also try a heaver lure or plug the line or reel may need it to pull the line off the spool

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2016 05:43PM by bill boettcher.

I have the same problem with a 9' ultra lite factory rod but mostly with braid. I've tried different spool diameters, weight etc and it birdnests about mid rod. I'll try moving the butt guide around. Thanks for the tip.

Well, I went to the garage and pulled all the surf rods and reels out. I compared the distance from the front of the reel seat to the first guide. A twelve foot typhoon was a full 1 foot farther down the blank than the rod in question. I also compared it to a 10 Foot drum stick and the guide distance was identical from the front of the reel seat.
I did pull the spool off the reel and check to see if the axle pointed towards the top of the butt guide. It did not, and was far out from alignment with the guide. The line also rubbed and bent under the top of the guide. In other words the guide was pulling the line down to the blank. On retrieve the line never touches the low side of the butt guide at all. It would just leave the top of the guide a little on the bail of the reels closest point to the blank.
What I did notice also is the guide size being the same, the guide on the rod in question is lower than the other two. It appears as if the butt guide should be taller to more center the line without pull down to the blank.
A smaller reel actually cast ok with the rod as well. A little 3500 series was alright with braid, but on a 11 foot med heavy rod, that reel was a bit of a toy.
I think a 5500 would be just right, with a taller guide. I would move the guide down the blank if I could but, it is only a couple inches from the two piece ferrule. It would have to go to the upper half. This rod has a very long butt handle and I would cut it down about 10 inches maybe and move the reel seat back from the butt guide. Sounds like too much work, so I will take the easier route and go with a taller guide in the original location to get the line more centered.
I had a 7500 reel on this rod and it was way out of alignment. The line pulled down drastically under the top of the butt guide. The only other thing is maybe to change the reel seat somehow in its relation to the reel foot, with a shim under the back, to tip the axis of the spool more to the center of the butt guide. I think this rod can function better with a smaller series reel like a 5000, and be better with a taller butt guide I guess. We will see!
Thanks Mark.
Mark

Mark,
Perhaps not only a taller guide but a larger guide. Do you have a size 50 match guide to try on the rod. I would think that that would likely take care of the issue.

Good luck

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark,
> Perhaps not only a taller guide but a larger
> guide. Do you have a size 50 match guide to try
> on the rod. I would think that that would likely
> take care of the issue.
>
> Good luck

I can probably get one Roger. I will take that recommendation! Thanks for your help. The links to the forums you embedded were useful too! Shock leaders were a problem for me, and they showed up easily as a culprit on a couple rods. I stopped using a wind on shock leader for spin casting and stopped all but one rod from the wind knots. I was using a 30 lb flourocarbon shock leader, and it was way too stiff in comparison to the main lines I was using. Any knots were a problem through the guides as well. Now I use only enough leader to reach the lure outside the guides on setting up for a cast.
I have confidence in changing the butt guide to taller in a 50 size. Definitely has to stop the line from getting choked down so fast at the first guide. I may still even try to shim the reel foot heel to further align the axis of the spool and line to enter the butt guide more centered. Seems as though the reel seat needs some kind of help, but I will do one thing at a time and start with the butt guide.
Thanks again Roger!
Regards Mark

Mark,
In all of the spinning rods that I build, I do a test after I have taped the guides in place with the tip glued onto the tip of the blank.

I will mount a reel on the rod and then pull off about 20 feet of line. I will thread the line through the guides and tip. I will put my stockinged foot on the line to put pressure on the line and then slowly reel in the line.

The thing that I look for is that I want to see that the line, as it is reeled in to the reel, to fully touch all 360 degrees of the first or butt guide during the retrieve.

I have found that if the line touches all 360 degrees of the butt guide on a light tension line retrieve that the rod will have excellent casting results with little to no line slap on the rod or any of the guides.

But, if the butt guide is either too short or too small, so that the line does not touch the entire 360 degrees of the guide ring, that some of these setups give me issues with either casting or line troubles.

I simply call it the first guide 360 test.

Be safe