Alright so I am going to be building an MHX FS904 as my next flipping rod and I have a couple questions that I would like some help with. First off, whats the general rear grip length people tend to give a flipping rod? I was thinking 11". Second, I think I am going to spiral wrap the blank because its a custom build so why not, I would like to try one out at least. If I go with the spiral wrap, what size guides should I use? I was planning on 6mm single foots on the top half but as far as what guide sizes and what degree they should be turned on the blank for the spiral wrap I am clueless. I know some will say "its a custom, build it how you want" but this is my first time so I would like some general ideas to get me started as far as rear grip length and spiral wrapping. I could really use some help here because I'd like to get everything ordered before the weekend is over. You were all a huge help when it came to suggesting a good building starter kit so I'm sure I'll get some help with this one. Thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2016 08:55PM by Denham Bruce.

For a flippin rod, which will not generate high line speeds, any size guides should do OK. I would use the Fuji Kr 6 for the first guide, (higher than normal) add the rest of the running guides (6 KB's for me) as you would for a conventional build. Half way between the first and second guide put another KB6 at 90 degrees. Now place all the running guides at 180 degrees. So you have the first at 0, the second at 90, and the rest at 180. If you will use a left hand reel I would put the second guide at 270 to keep it off the deck when you lie the rod down on the deck. I am doing one also, not a spiral, and have chosen the guides I mention above. Note the similar thread that I started, some good tips there.

What would you say about guide size if I also wanted it to double as a frog rod?

This may sound sarcastic and it is certainly not meant to be that way, but I would say build another rod for that purpose. Although many will say both can serve double duty, to me the purpose of custom is to build the best rod for the purpose and a Flipping Stick (provided you are actually using it to flip jigs and not pitch them) requires a different build than a frog rod.

I would get ahold of Lance at Swampland and see if he still has any of the Castaway 874's stuck in a corner or see what he is recommending now regarding a ribbit stick.

Tom

Okay perhaps you identified my problem, I will in fact be using it as a "pitching" stick. Guess I was not up to date on the lingo!

Denham, I meant no offense and was not trying to imply you didn't know what you were saying. Since you are going to build it as a pitching stick I would still go with a 6mm dbl foot followed by single foot 5,4, and 3's out to the tip. I spiral mine so that the 6 is on top on the 0 degree axis as I fish right handed, my 5 is at 60 and the 4 is at 120 with the 3's on the bottom. They will spiral to the right.

Hope this helps a bit.

Tom

No offense taken! But would you still be going that small of guides if you were to be casting frogs? I also may tie up a FC leader to the end of my braid at times, not sure how that effects guide sizing.

If the FC leader knot will be going through the guides, and I didn't know how to tie an FG knot, I would go no smaller than 6. IMHO. The double uni is a good knot, but it's big. I would start with no FC leader and see if it works. I have very little experience with this kind of fishing , but since the line speeds are very low, I expect it would be very easy to screw up the cast with a knot engaging the guides.

Denham, I have the following setup on my 874, dbl 6, single ft 5, 4, 3 and then 2.5's out to the tip. That rod throws frogs like down to the knot on my curado E7 with ease!!!(yes, I do use braid with a mono backer on the spool) I am sure that I could have gone straight to the 2.5's as have done on many other rods. I simply used the 3 on this one for the heck of it. I don't believe it offered any advantage or disadvantage.

I will say that if you are going to use a leader, the smallest I would go would be 3's and that is dependent on the type of knot that you throw. I personally use 3's but for anyone else I would suggest no smaller than 4's.

Tom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2016 05:46PM by Thomas Kaufmann.

The FG knot is what I would be using. I initially never considered anything smaller than 6's. I come from a steelhead background and I feel like I've never seen a rod with guides smaller than that. I'll obviously be using a low profile and was thinking I'd have 8 guides total for a spiral wrap. Starting off with sized 10, 8 and 7 all double foots to get me around the blank and then finish it off with about five sizes 6's on the underside of the blank. Would this sound about right if I wasn't looking to get super small guides? If you think I should consider something different I am all ears. Would also like some info too if that not too much considering I don't really understand the logic behind determining guide sizing.

I suggest you try whatever size guides you select with the leader and knot before hard finishing the rod.

Regarding your guide proposal, Denham, I don't think you need all those intermediate sizes and think performance will be better if you just go with the Fuji KR 6 as your first guide, then all 6's to the end, including the 90 degree guide. This would give you only one double foot. I would use KB;s all the way (after the first guide) because of their bigger, stronger, foot. I really see no advantage to going smaller for this type of rod. I don't go smaller than 4.5's to keep the casting rods versatile, and I haven't been able to find a disadvantage to that method.

The only guides I'd throw into this discussion are the pac bay minima 4s. I use a dbl 8 then single 5 and 4s the rest of the way and I pass the FG knot cleanly on my frog rod (50lb braid and 15-20lb leader) In my opinion, if you use ceramic guides one of them will loose the ring. It just happens, but i've only had to replace 1 minima in 3 years of building with them on 30+ rods. (I stepped on it and bent it horribly)

Just a suggestion.

Joe

FS904-MHX for flippin and MB874-MHX for Frog

Bob McKamey
Mud Hole Custom Tackle
bobm@mudhole.com

Denham, the smallest guides make for the most efficient rod. Go with the smallest that you can, use the lightest components you can (i.e. carbon for the grips), use the bare minimum of thread, epoxy and other adhesives and it will all add up to the most efficient tool for your intended purpose.

Tom

Bob,
could you shoot me an email with a comparison of ya'lls 874 as compared to the Castaways? I've been looking for a suitable sub since Castaway scrubbed he blank program.


Thanks,
Tom

Denham, as far as the number of runners you need to use, you first have to determine how closely you want the line to follow the bend of the blank. The closer the line follows the bend of the blank, the more power the rod will have. Too few running guides could result in the blank bending more severely under a load, and could increase the likelihood of tip breakage if a high sticking scenario were to come into play.

If it were me, I'd order at least 2 more running guides than I think I may need, and let static load testing tell me how many I actually need. If you don't use the extras, you have replacements should you ever damage a guide. I'd rather have them and not need them, than need them and not have them.

I also wouldn't predetermine your rear grip length. Especially if you're using an exposed blank reel seat that needs to be fitted at a certain point on the blank. The way you perform the technique of pitching may have a bearing on how long your rear grip can be without it making the rod difficult to use. If when you pitch, the rear grip travels inside your forearm and near your body, then too long of a rear grip could cause interference with your body, or your clothing. Especially if you have to wear bulky clothing early and late in the season, or if your rain gear is bulky.

If you're perhaps wanting a longer rear grip to help balance the rod, I personally would choose adding weight to the butt of the rod, over using a longer rear grip that may make using the rod, difficult.

As far as using a pitching rod for frog fishing goes .... as long as the blank is a fast or extra fast action, the only difference I could see in how one may want to be built versus the other, is in running guide size. If as mentioned earlier, you use a leader when pitching, you're going to need a larger size ring to pass the connection knot. I personally never use a leader when frog fishing. But I rarely fish a frog in open water.

Denham,
Match guides down to 4 mm rings have been on the lighter powered steelhead spinning rods for 30+ years.