Hello Everyone,

First and for most I would like to thank everyone for the plethora of information you have shared. I have build two rods with the knowledge learned here and I thank you all very very much!

First a bit about me. I am a pretty new rod builder and I live in the Chicago land area. I started late last year and I have the rod building bug. I mostly fish for bass but also like going for Musky, Walleye, and panfish. I built custom rods for myself, and plan to for family and friends. I enjoy it very much because of not only the ability to make a superior than factory rod but because I can create the rod to my color and style specifications.

So where to begin? I hope you all don't yell at me for posting so many questions but I figured I would start here and then maybe carry on in different directions. My questions are about a specific rod though they pertain to rod building in general and I would like to used the information here on other builds I have planned. I have previously built two rods as starters and now plan on taking my first stab at a "super rod." I am going for a great senko styled casting rod (mostly weightless wacky fishing) 4" to 6". I plan to pair it with an Abu Garcia revo MGX casting reel and will mostly be using 10 to 15 lb fluro as line. So first question is, of course, the blank? I have my choices narrowed down to three. I hear a lot of debate about sensitivity being highly overrated by us bass fisherman, as in your rod can really only be so sensitive for this kind of fishing and the rest is just overkill. So I have these listed as choices with some pros and cons.

3. MHX HM - MB843 seems like a good enough blank to be cheep, light, and sensitive enough to be great for a supreme worm rod. Also the least expensive. I have heard mixed things about the HM so all opinions welcome. I know the regular MHX is a great value blank.
2. St Croix - 5S70MHF-B I have heard lots of good things about this blank. I also have "a guy" for these so I get them %20 off and free shipping making it just a little more than the MHX. Problem I have is the color (yuk) but will deal with it if it performs well. Also most Croix blanks are known to be a bit over powered was was thinking of maybe getting a medium instead, nearly same model?
1. NFC - HM-MB705-1 This seems to be the grand daddy blank. Only negative I can find here is the whopping $266 price tag. Main issue is will this thing really perform THAT much better (as in $166 better) than the MHX HM or $100 than the Croix. I know, I know. This is preference, but humor me please. I mean really noticeably different. Night and day type of stuff.

Next, the grips. I like winn grips though I know they are glorified EVA. I have built with them before and I like the feel. I was ,however, thinking of trying the new CFX carbon grips mudhole has. I hear they are very sensitive and strong. The main thing here is I have never used this material before and am lost. Can I ream these like EVA or Cork or is this stuff a lot more complex then that? Hoping you all may have more experience than I do. I am going to use an EVA fighting butt because they are durable and like them. Haven't decided on using a foregrip yet. Most my bass rods have them but is it really necessary?

For the reel seat I am between those sweet MVT baston reels and a fuji ECSM. I have built with and fished with the ECSM but am thinking of spending the extra dough to try the MVT. I seems to be a very nice reel seat and unique. This is going to be a personal preference thing again but was curious as if anyone used one of these bad boys in building and what they think of them.

As for guides I am going to run titanium fuji concept guides starting with an 8 stripper, 6 double foot, 5 double foot, then 5 runners up the top. Trying to keep it as light as possible. Titanium size 5 tip top as well.

And the big question. How do you guys build a balanced fishing rod? I do NOT want to add weights to the butt. I am trying to figure out an efficient way to built my rods balanced. Right now the only way I can really think of is putting the thing together without the wrapping and glue, only taping and trying to move the reel seat up and down with the reel on it in place. I am hoping there is a better way than this?

As a new but enthusiastic rod builder, I am trying to better myself and really be the best I can be. Looks are somewhat important to my rods, but I am more of a bare bones best best rod with little flash kind of guy. I am really trying my hardest to perfect my craft and one day I would love to help others on this forum as well. If you read this thing, thanks for taking the time to do so! Look forward to hearing from you.

I have built and sold many MHX HM 843's and St. Croix SCV - 5C70MF and I personally prefer the St. Croix 5C70MF for strictly trowing 4" - 6" Senkos. I have and use both rods regularly. For an "all round rod you can not go wrong with the MHX HM 843. It is an excellent blank for everything from Senkos, Worms, Jigs and light Carolina rigs. If you don't have one, build one you will love the versatility of it. When I am fishing I have that rod in my hand a large percentage of the time and it costs about 1/2 of what the St. Croix 5C70MF does.

I have not built one of the NFC rod you mentioned; but, I have built a number of NFC HM D/S rods. Like you say the NFC blanks are VERY Pricey! Personally I believe they are blank out there that are just as good and you don't have to sell your first born to get one!

As for the guides sizes, I think you're right on. I prefer the size 5 runners, if you are ever going to use braid/ floro line. The 5's pass a knot a lot better than 4's do. Since you mentioned Titanium frames, I suggest you consider going with the new Torzite Rings. They are a simply outstanding guide, They are pricey; but, since you're building a casting rod and not a spinning rod the guides costs would be significantly less than spinning guides due to the sizes. If you have not watch it, I would suggest you check out the video that Anglers Resource has on their YouTube page.

Here's a link to it: [www.youtube.com]

You may have to hi-light the link and right click on it to get access.

Good Building and Tight LInes!

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 09:54PM by Donald R Campbell.

The CFX grips are foam cores that can easily be reamed to size but keep in mind they come uncoated - to get a nice gloss finish you will have to apply epoxy. Have you considered making your own? [rileyrods.com]
A foregrip is not needed - personal preference there

You will have to mock up the rod to balance the build - you might want to do this after the guides are finished for best results

so every thing don't run together try posting smaller questions , I mean one question per thread as some people comment on one an not all
you will get better coverage I think an keep it fo you I think

William Sidney
AK

William, Yeah I know. It's a lot. I guess I didn't want to start off creating 8 posts my first day and put it all here. I will try to cut down on legth of my future posts, narrowing my questions. Thanks everyone for quick responses. Nice the see this community is so active.

As to the comment from Mat, making your own grips looks easier than I thought. I will be doing a lot of reading and video watching on this so thank you for the idea.

And from Don. Great info. I probably will give the HM Mhx a shot because of its versatility. Thank you so much. It is very encouraging to see you say I'm on the right path with something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 10:26PM by Larry Majkrzak.

Larry,
I have built the NFCHM705 and feel it is better than the other blanks that you have listed. So far from what I have found, the NFC are the most sensitive blanks I've had in my hand and I have many that I've compared it to. I have a Point Blank on order and once I can get an Eternity I will build them both up as a comparison. I have not built on the MHX HM843 but I have built the MHX HM844 and did not like it one bit. It sits in the rack collecting dust. Honestly, I may tear it apart so that I can reuse the MVT seat on it as well as the carbon grips.

Not sure which water you are fishing but you may feel the 705 is a little on the light side. It is NOT a match to the Loomis 843's of any flavor, I know that most of the water up there is heavily weeded and when I spoke to the guys at Northfork they said the 705 was built after the 842's Loomis had previously made. If you look at the NFC catalog you will see there is a 724 as well as a 708 in the IM series and again the guys at NFC told me that there is very little difference between the HM and the IM regarding sensitivity. I think that those two might be a slightly better choice if you've got a lot of weeds or slop to deal with.

If you are looking for sensitivity the Winn is not the direction you are looking for. The CFX are very easy to ream out for placement on the rods. They are a great option for the carbon grips, you also have the option of Riley or you can make them yourself. I believe that Pac Bay has preshaped cores available. NO reason for a foregrip that I can think of on a Senko rod.

Regarding the MVT against the ECS, I have built with both and prefer the feel of the MVT. The only tradeoff that I have found is the MVT is slightly heavier, not a bad thing to have sometimes.

For guide selection if you are trying to go as light as possible and are not going to be passing knots, I would go the route that Steve Gardner showed me. You would use a 6 dbl ft, followed by a single foot 5,4, and then 3's to the tip.

Tom

Hi Larry,

I recently built a Point Blank PB761MF as a senko stick and I really love it. Sensitive enough, light weight with the responsiveness for good hooksets and casts. Everyone has really good input, so I figure I'll add a couple cents to the cup.

I've not tried the carbon fiber grips, though I probably will in the future. They boast sensitivity, but I palm the reels and keep my index finger on the blank. Thus, the sensitivity or material of a rear grip for me is not as important as a tight exposed grip reel seat. Personally I like the ACSM by fuji.

As far as fore grip, I would either ditch it or keep it really small. Its personal preference, but I keep my index finger on the blank while palming the reel for sensitivity when I fish, so the absence of a large fore grip is really important for me. Ill keep a short 1/2" foam piece sometimes, but thats it.

Guides. Those are expensive choices, using titanium fujis with torzite rings. Personally, I just use the BLNAG and BLAGs which is stainless steel with alconite rings, fishing a mixture of braid and mono. Cost / Benefit is the reason I don't put titanium guides on my casting rods, generally speaking. Titanium is roughly 40% lighter than stainless steel, and torzite is roughly 50% lighter than aluminum oxide which is pretty significant. Now, lets assume you use 11 guides or so. The full complement of casting guides as an estimate would be 3-3.5 grams for the ss / aluminum oxide guides. If you spent 70 bucks more on guides for the top of the line, you would be saving approx 45% in weight (1.3-1.5 grams or 0.05oz). Personally, I'm just not willing to spend that much money for such little decrease in weight. Alconite guides seem like a good compromise for me so it works out. For spinning reels though, its a completely different story. The blanks are lighter, and the guides are so much larger, so the 45% reduction in weight for those components is extremely important for the performance of the rod (you're talking about 15 grams worth of guides or more).

Another little bit on guides. When you choose your runners, whether it be 5s or 3s or other micros, keep in mind that the smaller the guide, the shorter they will be. They will run the line closer to the blanks because they have smaller feet, so naturally, you're going to need more guides the smaller you go to keep the line off the blank etc. if you use 5s, you can get away with 10-11 guides, but if you use 3s, you're probably going to need a lot more. I use 5s and they work just fine.

Balance. Now there is always the weight vs balance debate, and they have their special places. For a senko rod, I would really just make the lightest rod you can. With senkos, you're going to be needing sensitivity and you'll probably be fishing slowly, casting less frequently. Now, if you were pitching, flipping, or power fishing, you would be making lots and lots of casts, many of which would be underhand with your wrist as the pivot point with heavy line and heavy gear where the added weight won't make as much of an impact. Thats where balance really makes a difference, as a well balanced rod can take the torque off the wrist. For senko rods, you might not be making as many casts and you'll be fishing with 10b line or so very slowly, so IMHO I would just focus on making the lightest rod possible.

I'm no pro wrapper, and I fish way more than I wrap. I've wrapped my fair share of rods and am personally always trying to learn as much as I can. I'm looking forward to the responses to see what else I can learn from everyone here as well. Good luck!

Nick

Here is my Point Blank build and I love fishing with it, senkos and other worms

This is good stuff. I know the guides are a bit overkill but since it's a casting rod, the guides didn't cost that much more so I wanted to give them a go mostly as a test to see how much of a difference I see from my other rods. I guess it might be a better idea to invesr that money elsewhere like the MVT reel seat or a better blank though. I haven't looked at Point blanks yet but I will check them out. Very nice rod too BTW! And thank you for your input.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2016 01:39AM by Larry Majkrzak.

Thomas.
It's nice to read about some personal experience with NFC blanks. Sorry to hear you didn't like the MHX blank though cuz I was kind on leaning that way... But that is why I posted here. Many things to take into account. I honestly haven't even looked at the IM NFC blanks, thinking the HM was automatically the way to go for performance. I'm am surprised the 705 fishes like medium because of the rating so that's more info to consider. The cabbage up here can get thick sometimes but I will be working on a flipping/pitching rod for that. I mostly throw worms around cover and in front of weed beds so I was looking for a little lighter rod anyway. So much to consider. Thank you so much for the response.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2016 01:33AM by Larry Majkrzak.

Can't go wrong with the STC, PB, or the NFC in my opinion but I would also suggest taking a look at the Liberty MB702.5 and MB703 [www.getbitoutdoors.com]

The MB702.5 was designed spefically for unweighted soft plastics. Most mag bass blanks start at a 3 power making it tough to find a light enough tip with the backbone you need with plastics. We lightened up the tip while maintaining the power in the butt to give you the action and casting distance that can make a huge difference when fishing weightless.

To top it off they are made right here in the USA at a price that can't be beat in a home grown blank. Built with a blend of intermediate and high modulus graphite, we kept the strength needed to avoid breakage issues while maintaining utmost sensitivity. The Liquid Smoke finish is awesome! Best way to describe it is the perfect in between matte and gloss, you can see the graphite fibers in the sun but it isn't shiny and doesn't take away from your wraps. It is the perfect pallet for any thread color or go stealth and wrap it in black for a super slick look.

There is a solid sense of pride fishing with a blank that was made in the USA and wrapped by you! I'm happy to explain the blanks over the phone and I'll throw in a Liberty 'Fish With Pride' T-Shirt. You will love this blank and no doubt want to build another one!

Tight Lines and Bull's-eyes,

Get Bit Outdoors
407-542-7840
www.GetBitOutdoors.com
www.facebook.com/GetBitOutdoors

Larry,
Yes, I too was disappointed with the MHX and was thought it was really going to be what I was looking for. I MUCH prefer my RX8MB844 over the HM MHX! If you don't feel that you are going to be putting the worms into the salad then the 705 may just be the ticket for you. It has a FANTASTIC tip and does have good power but not to the extent of what it is rated. When I got this one I thought it was a direct replacement for the 843's but that wasn't the case. I can say it is one of my favorite rods in the boat, I just wish it had about a half power more oomph in the bottom end.

I've not tried the Liberty blanks but they are going to have to be put on the short list of future builds. It is amazing, I thought that once I retired I would have ample time to build anything that came down the pipeline......... Well, I've got A LOT that are needing completing and the tournament season is already upon us..

Don't get overly wrapped up in the "ultimate build", build what you can to the best of your abilities, learn all that you can along the way and most importantly, HAVE FUN with it!! You've chosen fine options and will be pleased regardless of which direction you take.

Tom

.Larry;
I've not taken the time to read the other responses so some of this may be repetitive.

Your remark: " I hear a lot of debate about sensitivity being highly overrated by us bass fisherman"
Most of those comments come from people/builders that have little to no understanding of what sensitivity is required in certain bass fishing techniques or what it takes to build a good sensitive bass rod and the situations in which sensitivity is Paramount in the rod depending on technique. (The only characteristic more important, would be land-ability of the rod.), or those with lesser experience that have believed the comments they have read or heard from those previously mentioned.

FACT: A rod blank is at its most sensitive state before anything is put on it, and anything we add to it diminishes that sensitivity.

If you decide to use Winn grips or EVA. Then don't even waste your time buying a top of the line blank hoping exceptional sensitivity. The most effective way to diminish or destroy sensitivity on a good top quality blank, is to hang a glorified sponge on the back end it.

FACT: It is not one thing that is going to make (keep) your blank/ rod more sensitive then others,. But a series of little things that added up together will create a big/desired effect. By the same token a series of little things will ROB a good blank of its sensitivity (Glorified sponges are a good place to start that robbery)

Do I use EVA? sometimes with limited use. That being on rods dedicated to top water baits only, where sensitivity is a non issue, where the rods butt hits the forearm from twitching. The softness of the EVA reduces the impact lessening sourness over the day or from multi day tournaments

If you truly want to build a sensitive rod? My suggestions would would be to:
Use the carbon grips, even if it takes some learning to do so.

St Croix blanks are awesome! I use and love the (5) serious, But for MAX sensitivity NFC is the way to go. Is it a $100.00 more sensitive? That is subjective: to me yes, to you maybe.

Real seats: Hands down the best seat for maintaining sensitivity on the market today is is Batson's MVT seat. They are impregnated with carbon graphite

PHYSICS FACT: when using dissimilar materials no matter what for, a certain amount of vibration/sensitivity is lost when transitioning through one dissimilar material to another.
FACT: The closer you can keep types of materials in your build, the more sensitivity you will retain and feel what you retain. (Carbon graphite blanks, Carbon graphite grips, Carbon graphite seats)

Skip the fore-grip, not needed on a bass rod and is just extra weight.
Eliminating the fore grip with also shift the balance point back.
If you using split grips? and use a hook keeper? Install it between the grips, this adds the weight aft of the reel seat further shifting balance to the butt.

Guides Titanium is a plus, but I would down size your choices and start with the 6mm double ft. then singles after that 5mm, 4mm, 3mm's to the tip, The smaller guides will weigh less, require less thread, and less epoxy, all of which will lighten the rod up out towards the tip, shifting the balance point further back. Helping you to achieve your goal of a balanced rod. Thereby increasing bite detection while helping to maintain sensitivity.


If you can't find Ti's in the 3mm size you will still save some weight by going with the Micro's over the larger sizes.

Nick,

That is an excellent reply. I agree with everything you said...for what my opinion is worth!

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Larry,

I just built a very similar rod using the 7ft Liberty P703-USA blank. I primarily use it for tossing Wacky Rigged Senkos. Its an excellent blank made right here in the USA. Also has a LIFETIME guarantee. Ive landed Walleye, Small Mouth, Largemouth, and small pike on it.

Total weight is 9.8oz with the reel spooled with line. Went with cork handles to keep weight down and more sensitivity. Cant beat it for the price.

[i247.photobucket.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2016 10:49AM by Will Cooper.

Don, for how much rod building experience you have, your opinion is worth a lot!

Thanks again everyone for the responses!

-Steve, you posted a lot of the exact information I was looking for. I am looking more into carbon grips and my even start to make them but that is a whole other story. A lot of thinking and researching to do there as well as get a lathe of some sorts. Thank you.

-Thomas, I am still thinking of the blank with all these new options I am finding. Point , liberty, and Phenix have been added to my list possibilities. Batson is another but I was looking at the eternity line, but once again, not a huge fan of the blue blank. I try not to get caught up in the quest for a perfect rod. I am having A LOT of fun experimenting and learning new things and I hope to build all types of rods for years to come. I guess it would be a sin to make one anyway because then I wouldn't want to create more!

WIll- very nice rod. 9.8 oz with a reel is a nice rod at any price!

GBOD- Thanks for taking interest in my post! I actually called you guys yesterday about some rod questions and the staff there is terrific. I am sure you will have plenty of my business with my upcoming ventures.

You are welcome Larry, we are glad to help!

Tight Lines and Bull's-eyes,

Get Bit Outdoors
407-542-7840
www.GetBitOutdoors.com
www.facebook.com/GetBitOutdoors

Larry,
If it were my money and I had Steve Gardner tell me that the NFC is tops, all worry would be set aside and I'd order the NFC!! In fact his post has pushed me to get ready to order more of the NFC's.

Tom

Ok done. Thanks so much for the help guys! I am going to go with the NFC blank, micro/macro guides, carbon grips, and the MVT reel seat. I'm excited to see how this works out. Pics coming soon.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2016 07:29PM by Larry Majkrzak.

"FACT: The closer you can keep types of materials in your build, the more sensitivity you will retain and feel what you retain. (Carbon graphite blanks, Carbon graphite grips, Carbon graphite seats)"

Would this apply to the fighting butt as well? Or just the places of holding and touching the rod? The reason I asked is because I usually use EVA for the fighting butt just because it's very durable and I just like the way it looks. Also its about $10 cheaper than a carbon fiber butt. Maybe be a strange question but I want to make sure I am not missing anything.

thanks,
Larry