I've tried searching, but "wrap", "tip top", "guide" don't really differentiate enough to find useful threads.

I know you can wrap a guide as a top, instead of a tube top. I'm considering this for a rod that I'm trying to keep the tip as light as possible. Are there any tips/tricks For this? Any pitfalls I should look out for? Should I use a locking wrap, and should I make it flush with the rod end or overhang it by a smidgeon? It would be a M or M/H spinning build.

Thanks,

Craig

Craig,
Since this is a M or a MH build, I would never ever use a guide as a rod tip.

The simple reason, is that a guide does not have the bracing, nor the strength of a braced tip top. I can virtually assure that you will never ever notice any difference in the action or use of this rod by using a guide rather than a tip top for a tip.

The question is: is this a spinning rod or a casting rod?

If you were to use a guide for a tip top, would the guide be the same guide as you use for the last couple of running guides near the tip of the rod? If so, just go ahead and tie it on. It would be a good idea to use a locking wrap in this exposed position and if you use a locking wrap, I would have the rod blank extend past the guide foot by about 1/8th of an inch.

By the way, how much difference in weight are you talking about? In particular, if you are using minima guides, the minima tip is pretty light.

Be safe

You certainly can wrap a guide in place of a tip top, a locking wrap is a good idea and a tiny bit of over hang is OK, just do not get carried away.

The tacky question is do you know how much weight is being avoided, if any, after consideration of guide plus wrap plus finish? Yes, avoiding weight at the tip is generally a good thing given the leverage that weight has way out at the tip. But how much are you trust going to gain?

Nonetheless, lots of folks do as you intend, usually on lighter rods. I'd not do it on a M/H rod, but that's just me.

Well, to be honest I'm not sure, it would be roughly the weight of a guide, aluminum tube and adhesive compared to a guide, thread and epoxy.
I'm not an experienced builder for sure. But I did happen to read a Spolek article where (grossly paraphrasing) an extra 1.17 grams at the tip of a rod equaled a 15% decrease in rod frequency and line speed. Granted that was on a fly rod.

Craig

It is a common practice on centerpin float rods. These rods are 12 ft and longer, most of the times, 13 or 13.6 are most common. Reason is to keep the line in line with rest of the guides, which are high frame spinning guides. It is needed here in Canada for winter or cold weather to decrease line freeze ups. Also helps with cosmetics, everything looks nicer. I never used locking wraps and never had a guide at tip top to come off, even when Steelheads and fall run salmon give good fight. I do not think you will save any weight on the shorter spinning rod.

A damaged guide tip will be harder to replace then a tip top. IMO there are so many tip top sizes, weights, and materials available why not go that route. Good luck, MH

Craig,

I started using SF guides for tip-tops several years ago because of the unavailability of small ringed (micro) guide tip-tops. It took a while to get used to the look of them and now I prefer them to conventional framed tip-tops. They are also considerably lighter (higher resonant freq.) and I think they look cleaner. They do tend to be more “fragile” than the normally braced tip-tops, but only insofar as bumping the tip into something. I’ve never had a failure during any type of fishing conditions, even with heavy powered bass rods. In the very few instances that I actually bent a bumped guide, I was able to straighten out with no problem.

First thing that I do is make sure that the very tip of the blank is not rounded. If it is, I sand it square with the blank. While I prep the guide (Fuji TLSG3.5), I bend the guide slightly forward to provide an angle more conducive to the line flow. Then I use tape to hold the guide in position with the ring slightly forward of the rod tip (the tip never extends past the guide). I wrap the thread as close to the tip as possible so as not to have the thread slip off the blank (I never use a locking wrap). After aligning and applying finish, I apply a very small dollop of finish to form a “bridge” between the guide and the tip. This is best done after the finish begins to set and is slightly thicker to prevent wicking down to the thread wrap.

Since your email is hidden, if you’ll email me, I’ll send you a pic of my wrapped-on guides.

I have done it several times on various spin rods of my own when I didn't have the proper tip top quickly available and I wanted to fish the rod that week end. I then lock wrapped the same size runner guide for the tip. Looks were ok, weight was fine. May be my casting/reeling technique but I found line hang ups at the tip to be more common with my make shift top as opposed to a regular top. I don't do it anymore!

On the issue brought up of saving weight with a standard guide in place of a tip top...Have you considered that by the time you wrap the guide (I realize thread weight is minimal) and apply finish that it may weigh as much as a tube style tip top? I don't know this to be true, but it seems like a possibility.

Chris,
Certainly for many rod builds that use nothing on the wrap except the tip. A few seconds to melt the glue and heat it up, slip it on, align the tip and you are done with the tip.

So, certainly the time is a fraction to put a tip top on the rod rather than tying on a guide.

Be safe

Chris,

Not even close.