Does anyone else have issues with this? I can't seem to get these metallic threads to pack at all. Maybe I should keep going and try to pack at the end. But it seems that standard colors lay down pretty well next to each other. It's just the metallics I have issues with.

I am laying down a 5 (may go to 7) thread diamond that will be the center of an iron cross. I wanted it to stand out so I went with metallic white. If I just wrap the cross now, will I be able to pack it all in later? Or should I just switch to non metallic thread and redo since I don't have issues as much with the regular thread?

Also what tool do you guys use for packing?

On a separate note, I got a fantastic guide layout thanks to the nice article with pictures on the 27x method! It's a 6' 6" and will be using 8 guides, with the last 5 being micros.

Wrapping with size A metallic Pro Wrap and Madeira for the standard colors, if it makes a difference.

The metallic threads are somewhat stretchy. They pack better when used in conjunction with regular nylon, or by themselves on more compressed crosswraps. The more elongation you have in your pattern, the harder it is to get metallics to stay where you want them.

............

Metallic threads tend to be more problematic for some people. If pattern centers are off slightly non metallic threads tend to stay where you lay them while the metallic tend to take the path of least resistance easier and won't stay where you try to push them. Non metallic thread laid next to and outside of your metallic thread can help anchor the metallic in place once you begin packing them. Here are some things that will help:

1) Make sure your spacing and layout is spot on. When layout out pattern centers use a cumulative or baseline spacing, not point to point spacing. Using the following 5 pattern taper offset center spacings of 38, 39, 40, 41, and 42 mm, here's an example of cumulative or baseline spacing: 38mm ("baseline - 0" + 38), 77mm (38+39), 117mm (77+40), 158mm (117+41), 200mm (158+42). The idea here is that any variation made in laying out your individual pattern centers effects only that pattern center and the error is not carried out throughout your entire layout as it would be if you measured and marked using the point to point measurements. If you make a mistake, only one point will be off, not every point after where you made the mistake so there will be less threadwork that will need attention during the wrapping process.

2) Wrap in bands of 2 or more threads whenever possible, and wrap single threads only when you have to. Thread overlaps, or crosses, require more room than the threads themselves. If you wrap an entire pattern with single threads it will be very difficult to pack tightly. Fewer thread overlaps require less room and they are also easier to move.

3) Thread tension. Just like fishing line pathing through guides, thread spiraled from point to point around a blank will take it's natural path which is the shortest distance. The tighter the tension the more difficult it will be to move, or pack, a thread that is not on this ideal shortest point to point distance. You will probably find it helpful to lessen up on the thread tension a bit (compared to a guide wrap), and even more so on metallic threads. Early laid threads are more easily moved and then held in place by subsequent thread overlaps when the tension is lower. Threads laid under high tension will often just move right back to where they were laid.

4) If you're doing an open wrap and your last outside thread(s) refuse to stay in place, lay down 1 or 2 extra sacrificial threads tightly outside of your finished work, pack your threads, apply one coat of CP, then remove the extra threads. The CP should hold your outside pattern threads in place. Then apply a second coat of CP and finish as normal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2015 10:40AM by Tom Kirkman.

Wow thanks, John! Very informative. This is my first wrap using a multiple thread layout. I'm not planning on closing the pattern (maybe I'll try to tackle that beast next time), so I didn't use taper offset spacing, is that a problem? I used 29mm for each center of the diamonds, and 6mm each side of the diamond center for the box wrap. 29mm is the circumference of the center of my wrap area as measured with a caliper and multiplied by pi.

As of now the only threads laid down are the 5 thread diamond center. So it wouldn't be too detrimental to start over.

When I have this problem, and I don't want to cut it off (again), I use a coat of cp, then repack about a hour later. The cp will be a little tacky still and hold everything in place.

Randy Weakley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow thanks, John! Very informative. This is my
> first wrap using a multiple thread layout. I'm
> not planning on closing the pattern (maybe I'll
> try to tackle that beast next time), so I didn't
> use taper offset spacing, is that a problem? I
> used 29mm for each center of the diamonds, and 6mm
> each side of the diamond center for the box wrap.
> 29mm is the circumference of the center of my wrap
> area as measured with a caliper and multiplied by
> pi.
>
> As of now the only threads laid down are the 5
> thread diamond center. So it wouldn't be too
> detrimental to start over.

You're doing an open wrap, don't worry about spacing. The idea is that you're marking your spacing correctly, same rule applies for equal spacing, taper offset spacing, open or closed wraps - threads wont want to line up to a center location marked incorrectly. That's the idea to take away and understand. If you're using equal spacing of 29mm, then still use baseline layout using 29mm, 58mm, 87mm, 116mm, 145mm, etc.. from the same starting point.

Don't worry so much about packing every thread as you go. Lay down a few at a time and then go back and pack the group. I tend to pack every 4-6 threads or so, but I know people who lay down 10-20 and then pack the whole thing. Packing thread is a time sink.

There's no reason to start over unless your marks are off and you can't move your threads that far, just keep going.

I think my layout is ok, but I can double check. I used so,e white thread laid out along the real seat to ensure the axis were good. I used a ball point pen to mark the line at intervals. I made marks on a piece of stiff paper 29mm apart. I started with one point on the string lined up with the first paper mark and made a mark on the string that lined up with the second paper mark. Moved the paper over and marked the string again. Repeated that until the end. I can go back and check with the addition method.

I may pull all the threads off and try doubling up on threads I'm laying down as suggested. I was doing one at a time just because of the convenience of holding the spool in my hand.

I will try out that packing tool. I have read good things about it. I was just hoping I could get by with something I have on hand.

Hi Randy
Here is a little trick that works well
Respool half of your metallic thread onto an empty spool
Then use the original for the wraps going in one direction and the respooled for the other direction
The reason for this is that the metallics we are using are a metal filament wrapped around a nylon core so wrapping in one direction this spiral will get tighter but loosen on the return wrap(this is one reason why the packing process is so difficult as one thread is `tighter`and the return thread alongside is loose) As more and more wraps get laid next to each other the problem gets worse until you change colors
Regards

Interesting, I will definitely play with that. It makes sense. Also could explain why I ended up with a kink in the thread on the 5th pass back down.

How bad would it be to use a size d for the diamond center and then switch to size a for the rest of the pattern? I have a spool of the metallic white in size d as well. Would require fewer threads and potentially cause fewer problems. But don't know how the resulting look would match up after finish.

I undid the wrap, started redoing two at a time for a 6 thread diamond and put a couple gray sacrificials on all sides of the wrap. Packing way better. Still very tedious though. When done going to put down some cp and repack prior to pulling sacrificials.