Had two spinning blanks in the past two weeks experience almost the exact same failure. Both blanks are 7' Fast/Medium HM (light inshore redfish/trout) from the same manufacture but different models.
Each blank snapped twice, about 12" and 6" down from the tip, during the forward swing while casting.

I was fishing with my buddy when his snapped and I saw the whole thing go down. The lure he was using wasn't outside the blanks specs, and the power of his cast wasn't very excessive-basically an moderate overhand flip to the near bank.

My first suspecision was these blanks are defective, then I got to thinking. A few things in common with these rods are:
1) KR Concept with size 5 kt running guides - pretty standard setup and love the KR setup
2) Both anglers use 10lb - 15lb braid with 20lb floro leader attached with a uni-uni knot
3) After talking with these guys today, they did have the leader knot inside the guide train - lure close to the tip.

Now my suspecision is the knot got hung inside a running guide causing the tip to high-stick as the lure was released. I did hear the knot clicking through the guides, and the cast was completed for the most part, so I'm pretty sure the line didn't get tangled around a guide.

I am going to send the tip sections back to the manufacture for evaluation, but would be interested in other's opinions/expertise/experience if something about this build config could contribute to a blank's failure - guide size/spacing/blank material?

Everett,
Certainly, having a knot hang on a guide can easily snap a light tipped rod.

Suggest that if you want to stay with this size guides and with a leader, to keep the leader shorter than the rod, and never reel the knot past the tip.

Or, tie a snap on the end of the braid that will not go through the tip, and then tie the leader to the snap or swivel that doesn't fit through the tip of the rod.

Be safe

I've used a similar line/knot arrangement many times and have heard the knot going through the guides and never had a blank failure. Or guide failure. For this arrangement the double uni is not the best knot, but it still, with size 5 guides and 20 pound leader (keep in mind that the double uni uses the space of about 5 times the diameter of the largest line) should not, in my opinion, fail a blank.

You say the line may have caught on a guide and caused the blank to high-stick, but I don't think that will happen. The stress on the rod blank will be through the guide as the line pulls outward/away on the guide. That will apply tension to the blank, and should not, I believe, cause high-sticking. If anything, it will fail a guide, or pull it loose. Never seen either.

The double failure is especially interesting.

I'm stumped.

I agree with Michael, have used the same line set up with kr guides (4.5) without ever having a rod failure. I have seen rod tips fail due to inadvertent damage such as by being hit with a jig or another rod while fishing or having the tip hitting the boat gunnels or console I have also seen tips damaged removing them from a rod locker or by putting an abnormal bend in a rod during storage. In many cases a damaged tip will manifest as catastrophic rod failure on casting. It is also possible that both blanks were defective. But I doubt that this tip failure was due to the knot being used. If you have concerns with the knot switch to the FG knot. I did this a few years back and it is the best braid to leader knot I have ever used and will easily pass through your KR guides without any noise.
Norm

Mr. Barts,
Questions that I would also ask are: Were the blanks received in the same shipment, and were the two rods stored in the same spot, and if so, were the tip sections exposed to wear in the same section from the edge of a boat, retaining strap, etc.?
I like to carefully inspect break areas for preexisting marks, in addition to the type of break itself.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

Thanks everyone for your insight.

Please don't think I’m implying these blanks are defective. I'm going to let the manufacture inspect the blanks and I'll honor that evaluation. If by some chance they are defective, then I can quit second guessing myself :)

Having two isolated incidents with such common factors raised the concern that something about my setup may have contributed to these failures. My high-stick theory came to mind thinking
the knot catch in the guide along with the angle of the rod and forward momentum of the lure caused the tip section to abnormally pinch for a brief moment (between a running guide and tip)
resulting in the failure. Then my mind tells me if this were the case, then this type of failure would be very common unless I'm missing something.

Thanks Geoff for the response. I see where you are going and it seems the consensus is possibly a defect, side effect of prior trauma, or coincidently one and the other.
These blanks were received in different shipments and from the same supplier a few weeks apart. The blanks were securely packed with no visible damage to the rod tube or blanks.
The two rods were being used by two different anglers and have not been stored in the same boat. The breaks are clean with no visual evidence of damage on the surrounding areas.
The only relatioship I can think of is the guy who built them :)

Either way, I’m probably going to put these guys on an Intermediate Modulus blanks to gain some added durability.

very interesting thread here. Please post the comments of the manufacturer if you think it would help us better with an explanation.

Buzz

Everette

Did you pre flex the rod blanks before starting the build.

i.e. subject each blank to about a 90 degree bend, before ever starting to do the build?

I have had a very few issues with new rod blanks in the past that arrived with a defect in the rod. No apparent shipping damage in either the container or the blank.

But, when subjected to deep flexing, the blank failed.

No issue with the test, since this is the same test that I subject all of the blanks.

Better to find a defective blank before investing any more time or money in the blank when the blank is new, rather than getting a broken finished rod the first few times that it is used.

Be safe

Hi Everett,

Out of curiosity, how close were the two breaks to the nearest guide wraps on each rod?

Take care,

Chris

Chris - Good question

Below is the guide train in inches from the tip - #5 Running Guides with #5 Tip. One break (x) on each rod is about 1/2" up from a guide, and the other seems to be in between guides.

Rod 1 - From tip
Guide 4" -> Break 8" -> Guide 8 3/4" -> Guide 13" -> Break 16 1/2" -> Guide 18"


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------x----------|----------------|---x-------------|------------|


Rod 2 - From tip
Guide 3 3/4" -> Guide 8 1/8" -> Break 12 1/2" -> Guide 13" -> Guide 18" -> Break 19 3/4" -> Guide 23 1/4"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------x-----|---------------|---x---------------|--------------|-----------|

Roger,
Yeah, I typically will put some stresses at different angles on a rod as the final static test.


Thanks everyone for your input



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2015 06:55PM by Everett Barts.