Once fisheye has reared its head, are there any methods that can be tried to mitigate it's effect on subsequent coats of wrap finish? I am using Flex-Coat High Build, and despite being super careful about wiping down the areas to receive finish with denatured alcohol just prior to application, along with cleaning my hands and tools, I still got bit. This is my first build, and despite loads of experience with all manner of pre and post catalyzed lacquers (I am a woodworker by trade) I must admit that I am relatively new to epoxy as a finish. In the wood shop I have a few tools to deal with finish contamination issues, the best being maintaining a clean environment and routine. But on a rod what are my options, if any, once the problem has materialized. The affected areas are not bad, and I will fish the rod regardless, but I would like to apply another coat to some sections and am wondering if anyone has advice for damage control with this finish?

get the foot of guides first [ fill them ] then wraps, wipe off the excess with finger I use light build fro this, let dry, then put your high build
on should work for you or stay with light build, your choice

William Sidney
AK

Never was before putting finish on That is probably why you have them Just wipe with a clean paper towel or just brush with a soft clean brush or blow off with air lightly

Bill - willierods.com

Wes,
I often think that fish eye, can by caused by the DNA. Although the DNA itself does not cause it, I have seen where it seems that the DNA might loosen something on the blank that causes the issue.

Rather than DNA, you might try a cleaner like Windex, or Simple green cleaner.

Also, I do clean the blanks completely before ever starting on a blank, but I try not to use DNA on the blank again during the build or finish process.

Another thing that helps a great deal is to wash your hands frequently with soap and water. Some folks tend to have rather oily hands or skin. If this gets on the blank and or thread - it can cause issues.

I try to always wash my hands just before starting to wrap and any time that I take a break, I try to wash my hands again before going back to the bench.

Also, never eat any food while wrapping. So easy to leave grease or other junk on your fingers if you eat when wrapping.

Be safe

U-40 brush cleaner works very well for blank cleaning prior to wrapping. It doesn't hurt to wipe the guides off either. DNA can sometimes take the finish off a blank.

You to figure out what caused the initial fisheye problem. If it's airborne then just cleaning the wraps now isn't going to help. Do you have any idea where the silicone came from? Is it still present?

By the way, I assuming you didn't wipe the original naked wraps with denatured alcohol - that can cause fisheyes.

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I'm assuming it's not the alcohol, but the denaturing agent, which would cause fisheyes. I've made that mistake. What would be wrong with using Everclear instead of DNA?

I am wondering if the razor blade I was using to trim tag ends both prior to finishing and after I had my initial coat on the wraps to level the little thread bumps where a tag was still a little high may have had a hand in it. I was militant about clean hands throughout the process but come to think of it I never initially cleaned the blade. Maybe? I know alcohol is not the best at degreasing but I am thinking that acetone is a nuclear option is it not? I figure if anything will harm the blank then it will, even though it is gone super quick once applied. Lacquer thinner to me would be out of the question. I guess I never thought of simple green. That stuff has eaten through clear coat on me before so I know it would probable work at degreasing the blank. I guess the alcohol just really spreads things from place to place. I did use it quite a bit as I went through the process figuring it was a safe way to do the job. Live and learn. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will put them to good use.

Razor blades often have a lubricant on them. Wipe it with alcohol, one swipe, before use.

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Tom,
I in fact did wipe down the wraps with alcohol prior to applying any finish on them. I then let the alcohol flash off for several minutes before my first coat. In your original answer did you mean to imply this was a bad thing? I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that this might actually prevent any problems caused by finger oils, etc. It seems several people feel denatured alcohol is not the best cleaner for the blank and wraps. In truth, the fisheye was limited to very small areas on only two or three wraps. After the epoxy had cured for a couple of days I almost felt that they were inconsequential. The cross wrap I did on the butt section of the rod suffered no problems although I did trim some small standing fibers after the first coat here as well. This was the only area where any color preserver was used so maybe that helped. Still, I was liberal with the alcohol throughout the whole process since in my experience spraying lacquers it functions well to tack off finishes after knocking them back between coats and evaporates cleanly. Thanks.

Wash the blank when it comes in just to clean it of other people touching it

After That I clean nothing And never get all the problems you guys have

You worry Way Too Much and cause your own problems

Bill - willierods.com

Hahaha. Fair enough. Either way it's still currently the nicest rod I now own problems or no. And it's all thanks to trolling around forums like this.

I don't really clean the blank I bend it to see if it will break at a good 90 bend maybe wipe it off with a clean paper towel After that That is all If I want to clean a spot where clear will go I get a piece of paper towel LICK IT and clean the area
I am not the cleanest one around YET don't have all these problems
I do thin my finish and I DO think that helps with many of these problems
I think many worry too much and use to many chemicals and get all sorts of reactions because of them

Bill - willierods.com

Never use a solvent wipe as the last step in surface preparation. There shouldn't be any finger oils on your wraps unless you've been handling the wraps quite a bit. Wiping naked thread wraps with a solvent isn't going to remove any absorbed finger oils anyway, and it likely just creating a problem where one didn't exist to begin with.

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To eliminate fish-eyes that are already there - and still wet (not cured) use a large size ball-stylus and "scrub the area of the wrap under the fish-eye. That will "break-up" whatever is causing the fish-eye. It is better to dip the stylus into fresh finish before you do this.
Herb

Wes, depending on where you're finishing the rod, airborne culprits may be impossible to eliminate. Been there and a way around it is to finish the wraps and set the epoxy aside to let the cure start. When you see a fish-eye, just apply the thicker (semi-cured) epoxy over the fish-eye. Once it starts to thicken with time, it doesn't pull away nearly as easily and will usually leave a consistent base for final coat. I never throw the batch away until full cure anyway, it's a nice "test" batch that keeps one from reaching and fussing with the rod will it's curing. Useful, too.

Most times, I consider the "dab" to be fine for a finish, but I don't sell rods. My somewhat crude craft was learned building in small (uncontrollable) apartment environs where every element seemed prone to cause fisheye effects. Just have to let it thicken a bit before touch-ups.

Thanks to all who put forth suggestions. Scrubbing the finish a bit in the problem areas seems to have broken the surface tension enough to allow the finish to coalesce around any bad juju and it looks just fine. I guess next time I will lay off the alcohol a bit.

I believe, but do not have hard data, that putting the original finish on too thickly, can cause fisheyes. I just did a carbon fiber grip and the second coat was put on pretty thickly and I had a few minor fisheyes. There was no chance of any silicone or other contaminant getting to the grip between coats. Sanding and subsequent thin coats fixed it. It seems that I only get them when I go too heavy on the finish. I try to do two relatively thin coats of Lite rather than one of Hi Build on wraps. The fisheyes on the carbon fiber were with Riley epoxy, which I've never had trouble with before.

Michael Danek Wrote:
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> I believe, but do not have hard data, that putting
> the original finish on too thickly, can cause
> fisheyes.

Thick finish certainly makes them a bit more obvious when they occur, that's for sure. Regarding the "no chance" part of contamination, I think anything near an HVAC system is prone to pick up contaminants. Any essential oils, candles, air fresheners (Phthalates) put into the air probably grab onto dust and once it lands on a chem reaction adhesive in action it causes problems.

Hard to imagine how much stuff floats around in the air of a dwelling or workspace and what effects take place when it lands on curing epoxies. Silicon itself is amazingly prevalent and in use for so much as a release agent it's a wonder we don't have more problems with it. Reckon it blows around on a lot of tiny particles.

That said, I like thin coats with U40 LS Supreme...they allow for another shot at it if it fisheyes and the initial effects (if occurring) are not so pronounced in thin applications. Subsequence is a good solution.