I put a four-axis chevron wrap directly on a blank. I wrapped each thread pretty tight and double secured it on each end by going over 2x sided tape and anchoring the tag in traditional manner with masking tape. I've done this wrap before but experienced a new problem. First, as I continued putting down successive threads, the initial threads became loose. Second, At some point in the wrapping process my layout threads shifted and my boxes were not symmetrical. Lastly, when I finished off the wrap, I covered each end by tightly wrapping over the chevrons. When I cut the threads and tape away, the whole upper end shifted like a Chinese handcuff.

I've removed the wrap and am considering an underwrap for better thread friction. What else am I doing wrong?

I've not experience that sort of thing, ever. So I'm not really sure what's going on but I suspect that just maybe you used too much wrapping tension which caused the wrap to move in a springlike fashion as it tried to straighten itself out against the natural curve of the rod blank.

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Laying the thread on the cross wraps should not be done tight. When you have too much tension spiraling the thread down the blank it will not be possible to adjust subsequent threads after they are layed. Sounds like you are stretching the thread. Your end wraps should be fairly tight but not overly so.

I'm pretty sure it was way too tight. Every other similar pattern has been done with an underwrap. I'm thinking the base layer of thread provided enough traction/friction to keep it from sliding as compared to the rod's natural smooth surface.

Most likely, yes. It will help in the long run if you ease up on the tension just a bit.

...............

Well,

You don't give us all the information to check on some basic kind of stuff. I'm thinking the problem you are experiencing is two-fold, the first being your set-up and execution and the second being thread tension.

1) Are you wrapping from the handle down to the blank? If yes, then what is your grip material? Is it solid or something soft and compliant like foam? How big of a diameter transition is there as the thread comes off your grip and starts winding on your blank?

My recommendation is that you execute your wrap in the opposite direction. Start your threads forward of the wrap area, heading rearward towards your handle, and turn around in front of your handle to go back up. Wrapping in this manner removes the sometimes problematic handle from the equation giving more consistent results.

2) Tightly stretched threads will contract when the ends are cut if the tension in the threads is greater than the compressive forces of the top wrap. Very simply you need more holding power in your tie off wrap and less tension in your design threads. If this is the case, your design threads should not move on you. If they do move it has to be one of three things: a) too much design thread tension, b) too little tie off compressive forces from too little tension, too short a tie off or a combo of both, or a combination of both a and b.

Wrapping from the tip to the butt isn't going to cure his problem.

Where is Billy V when ya need him
Also if ya find scotch pad the area that the wrap will go should just help the thread to grab more and not move
But it does sound like tension and a too smooth surface

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2015 06:52PM by bill boettcher.

I appreciate everyone's input to my question. It seems everyone has hit on something I was doing wrong or could do better. Back at it tonight.

Randolph Ruwe Wrote:
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> Wrapping from the tip to the butt isn't going to
> cure his problem.


The original poster wrote that his initial threads were losing tension, not that they were coming loose. I believe the buildup of additional layers of thread act in concert to compress his grip material thereby effectively shortening the distance between the ends where he's sticking them down with tape. This is a common problem experienced by novice wrappers who use foam handles and start out their decorative wrap threads on top of their front grip. If this is his problem (or part of the problem) then starting his decorative threads on a solid surface (the blank) will most assuredly help to solve the problem he's experiencing.

To illustrate this simple effect, try this easy experiment out for yourself:
Take a spool of thread in one hand and start wrapping the thread around the index finger with a gentle tension; the thread should not be loose, but it should also not be uncomfortably tight. Tyr to maintain a consistent tension on the thread as you continue to wrap thread around your finger and over the top of the first few layers of thread. after just a few passes you should notice a significant build up of compressive forces being applied to your finger by the increasing layers of thread. if you inspect the initial layers of thread closely, you should notice that they have loosened because your finger has been compressed and the circumference around your now compressed finger has shortened. This effect will happen every time if you build up layers of thread over any compressible material. To prevent this from happening, you must avoid building up thread except on surfaces which don't compress easily. The practical application of this concept is easily accomplished by starting your threads on the blank in front of the wrap area.

Even if you use a more firm front grip material like cork, or even wood or a composite material, there's still the mathematical factor of the thread rapidly transitioning from the large handle to the small blank. If there is a significant amount of thread packing or adjustment that needs to be done, then all the threads on one side of the center of the pattern will be stretched as they are moved, while the threads on the other side of the pattern will be loosened. If you wrap loose and try to move the threads a significant amount, you're effectively altering the angle to which they are spiraled to the blank and this change in angle translates to a change in required thread length. It's been my observation that people who lay a lot of thread (like the entire decorative pattern at once) and then attempt to pack the entire pattern experience more problems with their patterns twisting than people who pack at regular intervals during a wrap. This just makes mathematical sense if you think about it... if you push threads far from where they are laid, some are going to significantly loosen or tighten altering the tension used to lay them in the first place. This is all part of the equation when trying to diagnose a problem like this. The practical decorative wrapping application of this concept is also achieved by starting the wrap in front of the wrap area on the blank; you both avoid the rapid transition from large grip to small blank, and regular packing of the thread helps to lay subsequent threads closer in proximity to where they will eventually rest.

Now, I'm not saying you must start Dec wraps on the blank in front of the wrap area, but I am suggesting that if your experiencing problems you may want to consider doing so. If your not experiencing problems, then stick with what works for you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 12:44PM by John E Powell.

If started and done properly, there will be no rapid transition. I have been doing and developing dec. wraps for over 40 years, and too much tension is the first problem to be conquered.

Randolph Ruwe Wrote:
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> If started and done properly, there will be no
> rapid transition. I have been doing and
> developing dec. wraps for over 40 years, and too
> much tension is the first problem to be
> conquered.

Randolph, I think you're misunderstanding what I wrote. You're writing about technique, I'm writing about physical parameters (the change in diameter from the surface of the grip material to the blank). It's apples and oranges, so I'm confused at how you're making a connection between the two.