I'm new to rod building, have built 6 or 7 rods, have not used any color preserver because my thread is colorfast..... nonetheless I'm thinking I could get a better result with color preserver. What are the differences between them, and which do you use and why? Thanks for responses.

Sid

You are probably going to get a multitude of answers and choices. I personally us color preserver very little as I only build fly rods and most of my customers want an "understated look."

When I do use CP I use Casons Crystal Clear, which is solvent based and does not contain solids like the water based.

If you are considering using CP on your "colorfast" thread, I believe you will not see much effect.

Flex Coat. Never had a problem with it. Not so with Casons. If you choose to use Casons make sure you use at least two coats, better three (with regular thread) , and wait overnight between coats. With Flex Coat, even if it has solids, the thread looks magnificent after epoxy. Also only needs a few hours between coats. I generally use two.

Perma gloss on color fast thread works great. MH

You will get a better color and nicer thread wraps with regular nylon With or Without CP you should get several kinds of CP's and see which you like Small bottles I use Flexcoat and do thin a tad but use several coats every say ten minutes as it soaks in On guides i put a good wet coat while turning When it soaks in ( you will see it change color ) maybe ten minutes I stop the turner Turn the guides left - then right and wet the side of the guide feet to fill the gap along the feet

Bill - willierods.com

Using CP on NCP thread will not change the appearance but will soak in and push air out. This can help keep bubbles down.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

As Ray has said Or a thinned first coat of finish to seal But color fast does have a flat and painted look to it

Bill - willierods.com

What some of the responses above are pointing out, is that colorfast or NCP threads have a flat (not vibrant) appearance is due to the fact that chalk is used to made the thread colorrfast. The chalk dulls the appearance. If you want a vibrant color, use regular nylon and the CP of your choice, there is a very apparent difference!

Thanks everyone. As some of you said, my colorfast threads just don't really "pop" like I want them to, so I'm thinking of trying something new. Doc Ski mentioned on one of his videos that he uses color preserver even on his colorfast threads - and I'm not going to argue with him. I'm just not happy with how the colorfast threads look after the finish - kind of dull. Sid

I went down that road when I started. And as Phil said, Use regular nylon and the CP of your choice, there is a very apparent difference! And there is! You can even see the twist in your thread in clear detail. Jaa

Sid, if you want to see the difference between colorfast and regular, compare the two side by side right off the spools, (use the same colors) you can see it very plainly that one is dull and the other vibrant!

Sid,
I never use color preserver, unless it is specifically requested by the client.

I much prefer the semi translucent look that you get when using standard nylon thread with no color preserver. I prefer to have the guide wraps simply melt into the color of the blank, so it appears as if there are no wraps at all.

I use metallic trim, so the only thing that really pops out are the trim wraps.

I also like the fact that there is no barrier in the form of CP for the guide coatings to fully penetrate the thread for better thread wrap adhesion to the blank.


I do agree that if one uses CP, that there are fewer issues with bubbles and defects in the coating.

The only other reason to use either NCP thread or to use CP on natural thread is for a different appearance.

Be safe

I've got some Gudebrod on its way to me - so I'll be seeing the difference soon.

If you desire a little more "pop", use a metallic underwrap, nylon overwrap, and no CP.

Don

Don Becker

Sid,

If you want your colorfast threads to really "pop" try using a couple of coats of Perma Gloss instead of color preserver. The Perma Gloss penetrates the threads and fills the guide foot tunnels and really make the thread colors crystal clear. Let the Perma Gloss dry an hour or so between coats and then let it dry over night before applying epoxy. Also keep the Perma Gloss in the refrigerator and it won't start gelling on you.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Great ideas. Thanks. Keep 'em coming!

I had a bit of CP dry on the wrap before I could smooth it out. It doesn't self level like epoxy does. Some spots may have a little more build up, especially if you are doing a soaking coat like many on here advise. I had to use my work bench in the garage today because my table was too short. It was 109° in the SoCal valley today. My first two coats I was able to put nice wet coats on the whole rod. Then I went back to any thicker spots of buildup, which I smoothed out for a nice level finish. By the third coat, the high spots had started to dry before I got to the end of he rod. So when I tried to smooth out some high spots, it rubbed small clumps around like little boogers. Don't know if it was the heat or what. Would make sense since it is solids in a water base. I ended up just kind of brushing them away with my finger and it looks fine. It was an under wrap, so most of it will be covered anyhow.

Anyways, lesson learned, try not to CP when it is SUPER HOT where you are working!!! My whole upper body and face were dripping wet after the third coat!

I will use CP on both NCP or regular nylon if the customer is looking for a certain color and I can't get it without the CP. I have no problem with using it either way. I have two brands that I use; Chromaseal and FlexCoat. Both work fine, the Chromaseal is a little thinner and a bit easier to use in my opinion, but I probably use them both equally. The reason I have two brands is I've found that the FlexCoat will be slightly darker than the Chromaseal when viewed side by side on a given thread, and sometimes I need that slight color shift. I always make test wraps on a scrap blank first to see what I get. I know that the color preserver will prevent the epoxy from penetrating the thread, but CP itself is a thread sealant and will solidify the wrap. I found out the hard way once that when you get a saturating coat of CP on, you don't want to mess with it until it's dry. The thread will be soaked through with the CP and will be looser. If you try and tweak something at that point you end up with a mess. I usually always use two coats, with the second one being a little less thick than the first because the thread has already been pretty much sealed at that point. The second coat is insurance against missing something the first time. I haven't tried the Perma Gloss yet.

Just would like to reinforce a couple points already mentioned: Pay attention to getting CP down the tunnels. One way to avoid lumps is to put it on thick, but after about 5 minutes carefully blot the excess with a good quality paper towel. I'd like to point out that Permagloss is an entirely different animal from wrapping epoxy, and you should try some test wraps to see how it works for you. It dries almost instantly, so once you put it on, leave it alone. It will not give the deep appearance of epoxy. It looks good, but different. I think you can probably find some photos in the photo section. Roger makes a point about getting better wrap adhesion without CP, and while this is a controversial argument, I think he is right. If you consider that the function of CP is to prevent penetration of the thread by the epoxy, how can it not cost adhesion? I've also tried to remove some wraps that don't have CP, and they can be very difficult to remove. Some with CP seem very easy to chip off with a fingernail once you get an opening to pry on. However, I've never had a CP wrap fail on a rod, so it may be a moot point.

Michael, if I understand your last point, I might suggest that the threads are what keep the guide on the blank, and the finish, with or without CP, is what keeps the threads in place. Apparently one does not need the epoxy finish to contact the blank except to anchor it in place at each end of the wrap. When you say to make sure to get the CP down the tunnels, I assume you mean the space adjacent to the guide foot where there is a little gap because the thread wrap can't be completely circular because the guide foot makes the wrap non-circular. Why is it important to get the CP down there? I'm thinking the CP is only to prevent the dye in the thread from running into the epoxy finish (or is it that the CP seals the thread and makes it impermeable to the epoxy finish (this may actually be the same thing), and I don't get why the underside of the tunnel would be important to coat with CP; I'm thinking that a seal on the outside of the thread wrap would be sufficient.. So where is that thought faulty? I really appreciate being a member of this group.