Eugene Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave,
> The action is more moderate than most casting
> rods. Even a fast fly rod is still a progressive
> action.
> The rod will flex toward the grip when casting and
> into the grip when playing a fish.
> I wouldn't consider it slow just more tip flex
> than you might be used to.
>
> Gene

Thanks Gene.

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
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> Your really casting only 1 gram, .035 oz, about
> 1/32th of an ounce? I have a 12 ft. 3 pc., 1-4 KG
> line weight match rod I've had for 30 years,
> throws small stuff well, but line and reel
> friction and design I think would restrict any
> real advantages from length pretty quickly.

Yes, really only 1gram in weight.
I use either counter balanced cork on the hook, or dog biscuits with no other tackle on the line.
The furthest distance I've managed is about 15 meters on a 9'6" ledger rod.
That distance would be ok for my needs.

Dave,
You could double that distance if you learned to use a fly rod.
Light weight and delicacy are it's primary attributes.
Single hand or two your requirements are right in the "wheelhouse".

Gene

Eugene Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave,
> You could double that distance if you learned to
> use a fly rod.
> Light weight and delicacy are it's primary
> attributes.
> Single hand or two your requirements are right in
> the "wheelhouse".
>
> Gene

Thanks Gene,

The banks on these two waters aren't suitable for a fly outfit, but I have been considering one for chub on the rivers.
Maybe in the future.

Dave

Dave Rennie Wrote:
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> : Strong enough to cope with hard fighting carp
> upto 15lb, but still be fun with smaller fish of
> 4lbs.
>
> : Light enough to carry in the hand all day (it
> will be paired with a Shakespeare Supreme 035
> reel).

Dave, I freeline corn (1-3 kernels) with 2/10 PowerPro braid on a spinning rods built on 9' 8wt flyrod blanks. Don't know what the UK selection is, but I suggest you look into flyrod blanks for this spinning purpose. Occasionally I hit near the 30lb mark hence the 8wt. You could probably build down near the 6-7wt area and still have butt power for the 15 lb fish yet enjoy the casting attributes and fight of the smaller fish.

I don't weigh the corn although I know it's quite light on a small circle hook. Tried 30mm butt guides for distance, went down to a 16mm butt guide build and do just fine for distance stepping it down fast in a guide or two into 6mm Alconite single footers. On broken-in braided lines, this does just fine and friction is not a distance robbing element even with the smaller guide. The 30mm is not even necessary, I don't even look at them anymore when building for braided line use. Can't say for use with mono, might want to go bigger or check out the MicroWave idea.

Steelhead blanks are another option and quite similar, but they tend to be a bit meatier in the mid-section and less so in the butt. The flyrod blanks sit nicer in hand due to weight distribution and have (IMO) better butt power for the big carp. Makes it easier to pump a fish in and allows rod angles when fighting conducive to a quick bow when a fish surges out on landing attempts. Steelhead rods kinda bottom out in the butt to fast for big carp, they don't roll over like Steelhead and other species do. Simply put, the flyrod blank design tends to be a better one for carp and you'll probably find a wider selection than other 10' blanks.

I think you're reel size is quite similar to my Shimano Symmetry 2500, sounds like you're building for some real fun and will find this type of rod has applications for many species.

joseph arvay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave Rennie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > : Strong enough to cope with hard fighting carp
> > upto 15lb, but still be fun with smaller fish
> of
> > 4lbs.
> >
> > : Light enough to carry in the hand all day (it
> > will be paired with a Shakespeare Supreme 035
> > reel).
>
> Dave, I freeline corn (1-3 kernels) with 2/10
> PowerPro braid on a spinning rods built on 9' 8wt
> flyrod blanks. Don't know what the UK selection
> is, but I suggest you look into flyrod blanks for
> this spinning purpose. Occasionally I hit near
> the 30lb mark hence the 8wt. You could probably
> build down near the 6-7wt area and still have butt
> power for the 15 lb fish yet enjoy the casting
> attributes and fight of the smaller fish.
>
> I don't weigh the corn although I know it's quite
> light on a small circle hook. Tried 30mm butt
> guides for distance, went down to a 16mm butt
> guide build and do just fine for distance stepping
> it down fast in a guide or two into 6mm Alconite
> single footers. On broken-in braided lines, this
> does just fine and friction is not a distance
> robbing element even with the smaller guide. The
> 30mm is not even necessary, I don't even look at
> them anymore when building for braided line use.
> Can't say for use with mono, might want to go
> bigger or check out the MicroWave idea.
>
> Steelhead blanks are another option and quite
> similar, but they tend to be a bit meatier in the
> mid-section and less so in the butt. The flyrod
> blanks sit nicer in hand due to weight
> distribution and have (IMO) better butt power for
> the big carp. Makes it easier to pump a fish in
> and allows rod angles when fighting conducive to a
> quick bow when a fish surges out on landing
> attempts. Steelhead rods kinda bottom out in the
> butt to fast for big carp, they don't roll over
> like Steelhead and other species do. Simply put,
> the flyrod blank design tends to be a better one
> for carp and you'll probably find a wider
> selection than other 10' blanks.
>
> I think you're reel size is quite similar to my
> Shimano Symmetry 2500, sounds like you're building
> for some real fun and will find this type of rod
> has applications for many species.

Thanks for your detailed reply Joseph,

I was going to put this project on the side and have a go at a drop shot rod instead because I'm struggling to find suitable a blank without compromising my requirements.

A few people have recommended fly blanks now.
It's years since I held a fly rod, but I thought it would be too sloppy for this job.
I guess fly rods are available in various actions. Would you recommend a faster action blank?

Regarding the weight. The average fish are 7lbs, every now and then a low double, so I'd like to aim for a rod that feels good with fish around the 7lbs range.
What weight fly rod would be best suited to that?

What kind of distance are you reaching with your set up with free line corn, and how would you describe the action of the rod?

Thanks again
Dave

An older St Croix Avid and a PacBay Rainforest 2 in 8wt are my favorites for the size you speak of. The PacBay is more toward the moderate side than the SC though not by much. For pond carp in the 1-3lb range, I actually built a 9' 3wt just and use it just for kicks and it's great, but not a set-up for anything bigger.

Action, as stated prior is often described somewhere between fast and moderate and it's a lot different with flytackle as compared to the semantics of other blanks. They are all pretty moderate and at the length you are shopping for, it's hard to find a broomstick. If you stay reasonable with the number and weight of guides, the 15 m thing is very doable with light braid.

Although the difference between a 3wt and 8wt of the same length is certainly there, I don't find it to be so critical on the cast when freelining light offerings. The 3 may load more from swing alone, the 8 has less resultant waggle at the end of a stroke. The biggest difference made in distance is in the line and 2/10 is as low as I go. PP 1/8 or 1/5 really flies, but its light and the wispiness tends to like small crevices in reels. Functionally, I think you can push better into breeze or along cross winds with the 6-8wt range in freelining rods. Better corn speed!

The last part about the 8wts casting light stuff near as well as the 3wt was surprising to me, it's really not ALL about max load at light weights. Sometimes some punchiness from a slightly stiffer blank is just what's needed for the light stuff. The stroke length in 9-10' rods opens up some potential in this area, it doesn't seem to apply as much with shorter sticks.

Most important thing is if you go too light, you lose fighting power...so don't lose your butt. If in doubt, look at some comparison charts on rod attributes and see what you have available in the UK. Even an ambiguous "moderate" description in the 6-8 wt range will likely serve you quite well.

Thanks again Joseph!

I've started looking at 2 hand fly rods, and I'm going to see if there's anyone local with a few fly rods I can have a waggle of.

Much appreciated
Dave

EDIT: One thing I've noticed about the two hand fly rods, is that the reel seat would be in an awkward position for me. Would it affect the action of the rod if the reel seat were placed further up, so that the but of the rod were elbow level?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2015 04:17PM by Dave Rennie.

Dave, if you are building the rod you can put it anywhere that suits you. From the butt of the rod I just measured, the reelstem is around 12" from the butt. Split-t, some counterbalance, standard Fuji reseat.

I've notice many European rod builders like much longer handles than I use and thus different location of the reel. They seem to do just fine with it, guessing it makes the rod easier to grab from a set. You're probably not going to put it so far up the blank as to have a great difference in action, you're still well into the meaty butt section. See if anyone will let you tape/velco strip a reel onto the rod at various locations and see how you like it. A blank is indeed a blank slate.

One thing I will suggest when building the handle/butt is to see where it hits your arm. I offset the last few rings upward for better diameter and flattened the top of the rod butt. Instead of having a little round bob of a butt, it's a flared flattop that never want to slide off my (under) forearm when playing a carp. Seemingly minor feature, big time benefits for fishing and landing fish.

Thanks Joseph.

I contacted 2 blank dealers this morning, both have recommended against using a fly blank, and have suggested stalking rods with a test curve between 1.75 - 2.5lbs.

Having no experience in this is awkward, as I don't want to buy something that isn't going to be right for me, and I won't be able to try it until it's built.
My feeling is the blanks the dealers have recommended are going to be too heavy, and a fly rod may be too sloppy.

Could you post a photo of the rods you've made from fly blanks with fixed spool reel seats please?

BTW, I don't use a seat. I'm usually crouching behind reeds or sat on the grass. I only take a rod, net and small bag of free offerings.

Thanks
Dave

The rods look much like any other rod you will see on this forum, just longer.

Could you define "sloppy" for me in this conversation? I'm not sure which rod attributes that would be referring to, but you may have an entirely different selection of blanks available in your part of the world. Additionally, what is the weight of these stalking rod blanks you find so heavy?

Hi Joseph,

By sloppy, I meant that the total through action may be too floppy and waggly for the job I intend to use it for. But that may just be my misconception of a fly rod as I've not held one for 25 years.

I honestly don't know, because I'm inexperienced in rod blanks.
I have an idea in mind how I want the rod to feel and cope, but have no idea where to go from there.

I'm not sure the weight of the stalking blanks recommended. Maybe again this is a lack of experience thing, but the only 2.5lb TC rod's I've used have been broom sticks.

I had a custom UL lure rod made for me last year on a recommendation.
It was built on a Phenix Elixir 7' trout rod blank.
It took me a while to get used to the way the rod loaded.
In the beginning I hated it, but now I love it.

Dave, I can remember some of the rods I've cast as a kid back when some were building spinning on fly and I get the "sloppy" part. Modern cone of carbon we work with now is vastly different and makes a sweet rod for spinning.

I agree with you on the weight issue with carp rods...there are beefy and tend to have some heavy hardware as well. If you try to cross this build over and just change the chassis (rod blank) it may not go quite as well. I like to build FROM the blank and let the aims of the build determine the process, hence my mention of smaller guides than what you might be used to seeing for carp rods. When it comes to modern braids, I just don't see the need for a basketball hoop on the guide idea. Small's good.

Going out on a limb here, but I don't think you will find the lightness desired in a designated carp rod. You are really talking about building a different kind of rod altogether, something more along the lines of what I use over here in the USA. It'll be different to you, maybe different like the Phenix experience.

Give it a shot or two with different blanks, at least you'll know for future reference.

Thanks Joseph,
I agree, carp rods are definitely out of the question. The float, ledger and lure rod I've used so far would be a better option over a carp rod.

Yes, I will be building the rod so that the blank feels balanced with the rest of the hardware, but may step up a tad with the guides. But not basket ball hoops like you say.

I started this thread 5 years ago, and bought the blank shortly after, but life got in the way of me building it.
I now want to buy the rest of the components to complete the build, and would like to get in touch with Joseph Arvay, who I believe from his posts in this thread understood and had experience with the rod I aim to build.
Is there any way to send him a private message?
Thanks
Dave