So I did my second wrap, an open wrap of white, blue, gray and silver with Madeira. And yes it's a Dallas Cowboys theme. I really liked the pattern, though I think next time I'll either go for a multiple thread wrap or a closed wrap. Or both if I'm feeling really aggressive.

In any case, I put on three coats of U-40 CP. First two at full strength, the final diluted a touch with distiller water to try to get to soak in more. When I applied epoxy, some of the diamonds were ok and a few had spots where the white went translucent. I'm pretty sure the epoxy was soaking into the threads there. I've read about the gaps that CP can bring out, but under scrutiny, the threads are not white.

So my question is what can I do to prevent in the future? I put the CP on in sections. I would get it on the diamond, the band and the next diamond, for instance, and then wick the excess off that section and move to the next. I'm wondering if I didn't let it sit enough time before wicking. For dry time, I did one hour between first and second coat and a day or two for the third.

So is the solution more coats or more "soaking time?" The results are not bad enough to strip and start over (building for myself), but would be nice to prevent in future. Especially when I wrap the guides. This will be my first rod with double footed guides and under wraps. Because it's Madeira, CP is a requirement, from what I've read. The CP bottle says don't wipe off excess, but I've read elsewhere to wick it off.

Thanks!

Modern color preservers are a suspension of solids in a solvent. Water based CPs use water as the solvent. When you dilute a CP, you are applying less of the solids and more water. The water will evaporate leaving less solids covering the thread. When I do a decorative wrap, I know the surface is going to be uneven. I apply the CP in the same manner as my inscription area. I begin at the end of the wrap and apply the Cp lengthwise down the wrap with a flood coat of CP (avoid excess CP towards the end of the wrap otherwise you may have some sags). This should coat the wrap. After the CP has dried, I apply a second coat in the same manner and when this is dry I apply a third coat. All of the coats are undiluted.

The solids coat the thread to prevent the finish from darkening the thread. The solids do not soak in the thread. If you are wrapping on a dark blank, whites threads don't retain their color very good. Many rod builders use a NCP thread that has been treated to prevent darkening when wrapping a light colored thread on a dark blank. Good luck with your project.

Mike Blomme

What works for me: First coat is a "flood coat" - apply large volume (dripping wet) over the entire length of the wrap (threads, voids - all). Allow to fully dry - could be as much as 24 hours depending on relative humidity and temperature. You should know when all the threads are the same consistent color. Apply a second full strength coat (no dilution) and allow that to dry fully - the threads should look a little shiny. When dry apply the epoxy coating.

Never thin the CP.

A second or third coat will not "sink in" past the first coat.

One wet coat of CP is usually sufficient. A second coat is fine in order to catch any areas that might have been missed with the first, but is generally not needed if the first was applied properly.

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Over 40 years of using CP of all mfg's. I apply it as follows: and have seldom had a problem. Use a good brush, I use a white nylon artists brush of the size appropriate for the length of wrap I wish to coat. Give a good soaking coat of the CP so that it saturates all of the thread. I start and the butt and work towards the tip. When all guides have been soaked, I wipe the brush off and go back and wick of any excess and then let it dry completely. I give a second and third coat if needed using the same procedure. I think if you try that and have your thread packed together well you will have good results. Hope this helps.

My Common sense tells me that any type of finish or CP when one coat is applied ( and let to Completly Dry ) will not let any other coats soak in
I put while turning apply a wet coat Slightly thinned Let it soak in You can see that it does soak in as the color of the thread changes - 10 - 15 mim depending on how hot the area is trying to keep it wet yet let the thread soak it I apply another wet coat Then maybe a third
After done I let it Completly Dry Overnight Then finish

Like any type of finish when completly dry it will not let another coat soak in To me this is common sense

Do it as you wish I like my way and get Very Good Results

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2015 06:50PM by bill boettcher.

Bill, if the thread is fully saturated with the first coat, why when it is still wet, put on a second coat? You wont be able to saturate it anymore if it was thoroughly saturated to begin with..
I put on second and third coats if necessary to ensure no trapped air and it will give a more even build with the finish. JMHO.

How do you REALLY KNOW if it is completely saturated ??? Did you miss a spot will it come out Blotchy
Why not make sure with aditional coats This also helps the thread look really good with one nice wet coat of finish
Also on guide wraps I while turning put a reall wet coat on
Then when it looks like it soaked in I stop the turner and put a good wet coat on along the guide foot putting the guide left or and right to fill the gap That is why I like a thin CP soaks in better You do have to use more coats but what the hay !!

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2015 07:21PM by bill boettcher.

When I do the guide wraps I won't thin. I only thinned what I poured in a mixing cup, not the entire bottle. I only did because it looked like some of the solids were getting lumpy.

So I seem to be getting a different take from different folks.

Ken Preston...so by voids, do you mean that on an open wrap, you CP the blank as well?

Others...so if I just put a super wet coat on and let it dry its OK? Is it OK if it gets on the blank? Will it even itself out if I put it on the dryer? Since its a little runny it seems like it beads up a bit.. kinda like water on an unwaxed car hood. It doesn't lay as evenly as the epoxy.

Another question. I was going to CP the guide wrap before the guides go on. Will it dry even enough to lay the overwrap down without gaps?

Thanks for all the help!

I always CP on the dryer while turning It comes out better or it will have to be turned by hand

Bill - willierods.com

Randy,
Although obvious, you will never have CP issues if you never put any CP on a rod.

Be safe

Thanks for the tip Roger, but I don't know enough about how colors fade or darken with epoxy to make it work well. Plus the silicone on the Madeira necessitates CP from what I've read. I like the NCPs I have, but wanted to try something new.

Now that we have this pretty well handled, let me ask about an issue not mentioned. Is it necessary to gently mix CP in the bottle to mix the disperse the solids evenly? I thought it was, but looking at a few bottles I have, only Roddancer has that on the label. Flex Coat and Cason's water based does not.

It seems logical that if a liquid has solids in it, it will settle. If some people are using the liquid off the top, without mixing, there easily could be a shortage of solids in that portion of the liquid. Hence different results from what many assume to be the same material? Mixed vs. unmixed.

Regarding not using CP. I sometimes do and sometimes don't. One can get a good approximation of what color the thread will be from doing a test wrap and wetting it with alcohol. While wet, the color will be about what it will be after epoxy. I do not believe that the full pallette of colors will be achievable without CP (using regular thread) . Just using a lighter shade thinking it will darken to the desired shade, IMHO, will not give the same bright colors. For example, how do I get a bright candy apple wrap without CP?