Just when I thought I had the whole epoxy finish down to a science I was wrong. I have two rods turning and the epoxy is just not right. To my standards if I have several small air bubbles in the finish its too many. I can't play with the finish or it turns out lumpy so I have to leave the bubbles in. I'm using Threadmaster lite and have for several years now. Do you guys consider a few air bubbles ok or am I over reacting? The small fish eyes to me are ok because I can correct that with the next several coats. It doesn't matter how much I clean the blank I will occasionally get them. Seems my Problem occurs when the humidity is high. Any tips for finishing when the rain is falling? I cannot just let the rod sit until dryer weather. I know I'm no expert at this but after about 30 rods I should have the epoxy problem over with I think. Please give me your thoughts. I'm talking about over the blank where I place my decals mostly sometime over a large wrap. I never have any problem with guides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 07:26PM by David Bourque.

I work in a room I partitioned off in my pole barn. The temperature and humidity are very hard for me to regulate, and I had the same results with TM lite, never could correct it. For whatever reason, Pro-Kote gives me better results.

Its aggravating, I can build 5 rods with glass finish then I have I with problems. I think it has to do with the weather so I will need to change products or application. I like the threadmaster lite but I have tried every way possible to correct the problem. Looks like I will change products.

Cool The Room Off
using a thin finish in hot weather it TENDS to set faster Any finish
Cooler temps and no humidity will keep the finish wet longer and help to let the bubbles go to the top and pop
I like cooler temps better then the 70 - 80 recommended for finish It stays wet longer flows out better and lets bubbles get eliminated easer
It is still going to take 5-6 hours to set So what the heck

Bill - willierods.com

David,
Although some folks suggest that you do not use heat - I find MILD heat to be the friend of rod building finish.

I first coat the entire areas needing finish. i.e. guide wraps and butt wraps. Then, I will go back with my heat gun and add enough gentle heat to remove any bubbles or other finish issues. Again - GENTLE heat is the word and if needed, multiple passes with the gentle heat to remove any defects.

Then, I go onto the rest of the rod.

I do all of this under very bright light and high powered magnification, so that I can see any tiny defect present. I let the finish set for about 10 minutes and if any spots are needed for additional finish, I will flow on just a bit in the areas needing adjustment. Again, the use of very GENTLE heat blends this small amount of additional finish into the previous finish.

Normally that is all that is needed.

No more finish and no more additional coats are needed.

I almost never put on another coat of finish after this application of 1+ coats in the first 30 minutes of drying.

Be safe

Like Roger has said Bright Light if you can not see the bubbles you do not know what to get rid of

Bill - willierods.com

Ok I have some great idea's. I will cool the room down which will not be very hard. The heat idea I do but I may be giving it to much. I use a small torch should I use a hair dryer or a heat gun, but would they throw dust. Would you say that 2 much heat would cause the epoxy to lose its abilty to level and instead lump up.( get wavy).

Humidity won't have any effect on your epoxy. There shouldn't be any reason to heat the epoxy, except perhaps to remove small bubbles. Even then, a small cigarette lighter is more than sufficient. It sounds to me like you're manipulating the epoxy far too much.

#1 rule when using epoxy - apply it and leave it alone. Every person I've worked with on applying epoxy has been doing too much. They put it on, push and poke it around, dab at it here and there, then heat the snot out of it (which can create more problems than it solves). Without watching your procedure I can't offer much more advice.

.............

If you are getting bubbles in areas other then the thread wraps, you are either introducing them during application (brushing the finish) or they are already in your mix. As has been covered a number of times on this site...DO NOT brush the application, just let it flow on, if the bubbles are in your mix, eliminate them before applying the epoxy! I do this by heating the mix under a 100watt light and blowing on the mix in a shallow aluminum cup with a straw. It works!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2015 11:35AM by Phil Erickson.

David,

I had a rod building Buddy shared this with me and I found it results in fantastic thread wrap finishes - no bubbles. After wrapping a rod, he applies a couple of coats of Perma Gloss to the wraps and let's it dry overnight. The next day he applies the epoxy and they come out crystal clear with no bubbles. If you're using NCP thread you will need to apply CP before the Perma Gloss as it will charge the color of your threads. I wrap with metallics almost exclusively and have excellent results since applying a couple of coats of Perma Gloss. The Perma Gloss seems to fill the guide foot tunnels and reduces or eliminates the bubble entirely.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Mud hole has a bubble buster on there web / an book, it works the best for me, , as well as I use a container to mix my epoxy in , after I finish my mixing I put one or 2 drops of DNA
on top an most if not all of my bubbles are gone try it , an watch them go

William Sidney
AK

David You mentioned two things in your original post. Fish eyes and especially over the decal area.

This won't help with bubbles but applying a coat of CP over your entire decal as well as the edges should eliminate any fisheyes in that area.

Tom

OK I started finishing the 1st of 2. I cooled my shop to approx. 70 degrees. I lightly sanded the air bubbles out of the epoxy. I placed my Pearl Label decal onto the rod. I then used some goo gone as I normally do and remove the glue that pushes outside of the decal. I then use Denatured alcohol to clean the goo gone off and clean the blank. I then wipe off the little particles from the blank with lent free sunglass cleaning towel. I warmed my tm lite slightly. I mixed the tm lite and instead of placing the epoxy into a small round tin I placed it into a pie pan to spread out more than the tin dish allows. I Normally spin the blank about 300 rpms but I just let it spin at 4 rpm. I placed the epoxy slowly on the blank a attempted to use the tension of the epoxy to spread it. I then used my breath to pop some bubbles that happened to form. I left it alone although I wanted to play in it to remove the rest. I then went on to my guides. Finished my guides and moved back to the wrap and decal area. I again used my breath and a small amount of heat. Although there was about 3 small bubbles on the edge of the decal I left them. I did not want to mess with them and hurt the epoxy since it appeared to stiffen up at this point. The finish looks great for now. I will move it to my dryer that spins 24 rpm for the remainder of the drying process. I'll see what it looks like in the AM.

Hi David
Some data on the epoxies we are all using.These epoxies have very low heat distortion temperatures in the cured state(thats why we can remove old guides from rods by gently heating the old wrap)During the curing cycle low heat will not harm the epoxy as long as you do not reach the heat distortion temp,In that case the exotherm accelerates and the epoxy burns.
Also as regards the fisheyes,these are caused by pollution either oil or silicon based. It seems that you are getting these fisheyes in the decal area so remember that even the tiny amount of oil present from your fingerprints may cause this reaction.
Another thing I noticed from your writings is that your drying machine runs at 24rpm.That sounds about 4 times to fast for the epoxy to really flow around the rod.My machines turn at 6rpm.
And here is another little trick for bubble popping. Use carbon dioxide I make this myself using vinegar and bicarbonate of soda I put the two together in a bottle and catch the resulting gas (co2)in a balloon I pinch off the balloon and then run the gas over the wrap amazing results so far
Regards
Rob

Most often the problem with applying epoxy over decals is the lack of a "water break free" surface on the glossy decal. A coat of CP will usually prevent epoxy from running away, off, etc. from decal areas.

................

My 2 rods finished out good, not perfect but really good and Bubble Free. I have been testing multiple ways to apply it and have been getting really good results. I think I found my fisheye problem and have corrected it with great results. I also have noticed that if I apply the epoxy to thin when I heat it ( even just a little) it damages the epoxy and creates problems like fisheyes and waves. As Rob says my dryer appears to change my finish once I take it off of my 7.5 Rpm and put it on the 24rpm. Over the next several days I will continue to duplicate my process that works for me and will post the results.

That is why you should put it on and leave it alone Let it level And if you have bubbles light heat If no bubbles no heat
Since you are using light finish a faster turner will hold more finish for a thicker coat I slowed mine down to about 50 rpm from 70

Bill - willierods.com