What do you suggest would be the maximum size for running guides on an ultra light rod? I am (still) chasing a rod that will cast weightless lures well. On my last rod I used Fuji TLSG6Js.
Thanks
Braith

Braith

You could use any size that you like. You could use anywhere from 2 to 12 although the size 12 guides would certainly destroy the action of the blank.

I suggested up to 12, because that is what is commonly used by folks who fish outdoors in subzero weather through the ice.


Choose and build.

Be safe



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2015 05:22PM by roger wilson.

You can go as small as you like unless you want to pass a knot through the guides. If you do, you need to figure out what size guide will easily pass the knot you intend to use. If ultra light, most likely I would think 4's would pass anything you plan to use, but it's up to you.

Sub zero is not a problem. With running guides, I'm just trying to achieve the lowest resistance and hopefully best (longest) cast. I'm happy to go smaller if it doesn't slow down the line. I thought bigger may have been less resistance for the line.
Braith

Paul,

Friction between the line and guides is not that much of an issue. Friction requires the line to be forced into the guide and that just doesn't happen much on the cast. Get the line controlled as quickly as possible and let it do its thing. Using the smallest lightest guides you can get away with will allow the blank to transfer as much energy as possible to the lure.

The only benefit to larger guides occurs if the weight of the lure alone will not load the rod well. Larger guides can be used to load the rod and can help with casting distance in this case, but won't cast as far as a rod of the same length that will properly load with the lure and the smallest lightest guides you can find. When I was a teenager, a buddy's dad would cast 1/16oz jigs for crappie with an old buggy whip of a fiberglass rod with big heavy guides and really get those little jigs out there with the reels of the day. The difference between that rod and most graphite rods was the fact that the rod would load itself.

In the end, light lures are only going to go so far. Can you remind us what lures you have in mind to throw weightless and their weights and/or shapes?

Joe

Thanks Joe,
That has definitely cleared a few things up for me and given me something to ponder regarding the extra weight in the top of the rod.
The light lures I use include Atomic teasers in 1/16 oz and 1/32 oz, soft plastics down to those weights and with resin heads that sink slowly.
I can see your point regarding the size and shape of the lures. I was using a 4g wooden dowel as a casting (practice) plug. After your reply I tied on a .223 cal projectile (2 gms) and it casts just as far as the heavier wooden one.
Thanks for the input. I am slowly getting closer to a great light weight rig. My next 2 attempts are going to be built on a HM-SJ871-HMX and a SJ720-HMX. If you or anyone has a comment on these blank choices, please go for it and do't be afraid to offend...I am here to learn.
Thanks
Braith

My opinion is that size 4 running guides are perfect and for casting 2 grams, a more moderate taper should work better than a typical SJ taper. Think slower casting stroke. Understand that this impacts your ability to fight larger fish, if that happens during your pursuit of the little ones. I cast 1 gram stuff easily with a 3 weight fly rod blank and 3-4 pound Stroft mono.

I would recommend you take a look at these.[www.johnnyspond.com] Their real light weight and a little taller to keep the light line off the blank, I do use a light weight ceramic tip top to combat wear on the tip. Just my choice. I built 3, 5 1/2 ft brook trout rods using these in this order #16, #10, #8 with #5 runners to the tip this is with a 1000 size reel. Tight Lines Jaa.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2015 02:49PM by Jay Dubay.

I like to use the original Batson's in 2mm size. They work perfectly for me. I typically use stuff around 1/64th of an ounce. The heaviest I will throw is a 1/16oz on my UL setups, the only other way that I would go would be with the Pac Bay minima style... Those have worked very well also in the same usage.

Tom

Paul,

That's the first time I've seen atomic teasers. I like the look of the trout worm trailer in those jigs. That gives me some food for thought.

In regard to the blanks, I haven't build on either of those MHX spin jig blanks. The type of blank I would want for tossing light jigs would have the action of the Batson 822.5, but less power from tip to butt. I don't know of anything quite like that on the market. The blank doesn't need to load deeply to cast those jigs, it just needs to load. The specs of the SJ720 look like it could be a shorter version of what I want, but I'm not sure since I haven't had one in hand. I've been using an IP840 for most of my light jig fishing. It does the job quite well and the slower action makes it very versatile. I use it for fishing live bait under floats as well as fishing UL crankbaits. It's a great rod, just not the perfect little jig rod. I bet there is a little 6' panfish blank out there somewhere that I can extend into what I want.

Paul,
Try one of these blanks in the 7 foot length if you want the distance. Incredibly light and incredibly nice blanks. Use the pac bay minima guides for very light weight guides in the size 3 or 4 running guides and you will be good to go.

[www.anglersworkshop.com]

Joe,

I think that you should give the sj720 a shot. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised with it. I love mine for light beetle spins (1/64th and 1/32) and other jig applications (small road runners, crappie thunders and garland slab slayers and such). I have the built them with 2mm micros and also minima 3's. I like the 2mm's a touch better but that is just me. I use the minima's on many other builds and like them very much. Either will be just fine. I've not built the HM of the 721 only the regular version.

I have also used the 840 and love it for many things but as you've said, jigs is not its forte'. I will say the XP version is quite the sensitive little stick though.

Paul, the North Fork blanks that I have used have never disappointed and I think that you will be very pleased with it as well.

Tom

Tom,

I just might have to give it a go. I've had my eye on it since the MHX blanks were introduced, but I haven't made an excuse to build one yet.

Have you by chance built on the SB 5100 from North Fork? That is another short UL blank that is on my radar.

Joe

I have bought an SJ720 and a HM SJ871 from the helpful crew at Mudhouse. I think I'm on the right track.
Tom,
Could you tell me more about the 2 mm micro please? Is 2 mm the ID? What is the bfull name of these guides? Where would a retail customer buy them? I love the sound of the North Fork blank, but I tend to be a bit rough on them, so I get nervous clambering through the scrub with a top shelf rod.
Braith

[alpsforecast.com]

BMKLG02 is the 2mm guide. Ring ID is 1.12mm on the 2mm guides. Those are the original Batson Forecast Mini Guides. The last I sat down and compared weights base on manufacturers specs, those were still the lightest based on ring OD/size class. Maybe not necessarily the lightest based on ID, but I haven't checked based on ID, and it's been a while since I checked the numbers. The smallest ones I've used are the 3's, and they are on a number of my personal rods.

Thanks Joe,
That is small! Do you run a knot through them or do you run the main line straight to the lure?
Braith

I tie direct, but I have passed nail knot style bobber stops through the 3mm guides, but they need to be trimmed very close to the knot to pass through.

Paul;
2 mm micro's should work great for your application. If you can find them 1.5 mm's will work as well (and would be my choice for this setup), I have used the 1.5's on rods throwing up to 30lb braid through them.
Using the smaller guides will allow the bank to function at its truest design. and create a light feel in that set up that will almost feel like it floats in your hand.
I've included a couple picture links from Photo page to give you a realistic idea of their size.


[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Joe, I've not built the 5100 yet but I will in the future, I just haven't taken the time to actually sit down and order one. I will need to get with Bingham soon and get one going.

Paul, Joe is right on and I would definitely go with Steve's suggestion if you can find them. I know that I ordered special from Batson when I last purchased them. I got mine in black frame with blue rings as well as black frame with black rings.

Tom

OK, I'm sold.
Where can I buy them from... They will need to be sent to Australia.
What stripping guide and transitional guide should I put in this guide train? I intend using a Shimano Stradic 1000 reel on this rod. I'm not a fan of using a high stripper because it ends up a bit close to the reel.
I'm definitely glad I started this thread. I think this will be a good rod.
Thanks
Braith