When building a bass casting rod for worm fishing, what is your preferred guide ring for sensitivity? Or does it even matter?

I doubt the ring is going to add or detract from sensitivity, beyond one type being lighter or heavier than another. Overall stiffness to weight ratio is the key to what you're after.


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Use the smallest lightest guides that will get the job done. Once you get down to the 3mm and 4mm guides, the differences between the different ring and frame materials become much less significant. In fact in the smaller sizes it's not uncommon for the Ti frame guides to be heavier than some steel frame guides.

I tend to use the original Batson mini guides and Alps micros on my personal bass rods with hard aluminum oxide rings. They don't cost much and have stood up to all I've asked of them for a number of years now. However, the offerings I've used from Fuji, Kigan, AmTak, and the PacBay Minimas are all fantastic. We all have our guide preferences for various reasons. Go with what you like in the smallest ring size that will do what you need it to do, and you will be in good shape.

Are you passing any knots through your guides? If not, then 3mm or 4mm guides will get the job done, and I've been able to pass well trimmed bobber stops through 3mm guides when needed. If you are passing knots, then I would think hard about 5mm guides and possibly going to Ti frames in that scenario if they fit the budget. The large ID passes knots a bit better and the Ti frame offers a significant weight advantage in that size.

If you save 1/8 ounce total weight with lighter guides and add 1 3/4 ounces to balance your rod you would suffer a loss in sensitivity.

Phil,

If you lose a 1/4 oz. in the guide train and add back 1 oz. to balance, you break even based on my experience. Weight saved in the guide train, particularly the closer you get to the tip is WAY more important than weight saved in the grip.

@Tom Kirkman and others - do you feel that removing a guide ring increase sensotovity? I'm specifically referring to Recoil guides which o have grown fond of.

Joe: "Sensitivity" can't be measured. Balance, acceleration, force, mass, and leverage can be measured. I would not refute a paying customer who wished to make his rod heavier to improve sensitivity, but if asked I would not advise him to do so.

Do you mean using 1 less guide? Then, yes, removing the weight will improve or retain more sensitivity. But a fishing rod involves a certain amount of compromises. It would be mos sensitive if you didn't use any guides, but then you'd have no way to control the line. Leave off the reel seat and it retains even more sensitivity. But then you can't mount a reel. My point is that you have to do certain things so the rod can function properly. Having said that, it's unwise to use any more guides that what's actually needed, but skimping on the number of guides to the point where you have a "bowstring" effect under load, or some other malady, will easily offset any gain in sensitivity. I think custom rod building, particularly on the performance end, is about making wise choices. What's the best combination, number, type, etc., that will give you the best combination of the characteristics that you desire?

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Phil,

In regard to bass fishing, when an angler asks for a more sensitive rod, they are asking for the rod that will allow them to feel the greatest number of 'ticks' in the rod as the lure is dragged across a given surface. The anglers are speaking the same language here. I have never once seen an experienced bass angler call sensitivity anything else. In this case, sensitivity can certainly be measured. Emory Harry has posted extensively on his experiments. Based on my tinkering with balancing rods, the results are as above.

Personally, I consider bite detection the whole package that people lump into 'sensitivity'. A more sensitive instrument has a higher signal to noise ratio than a less sensitive instrument, and generally a narrower peak in the signal. Bite detection depends on the sensitivity of the rod, other physical properties of the rod, and the human element of perceiving that bite and knowing what to do about it.

Joe: Fly rod anglers fishing nymphs (without bobbers) rely heavily upon their sense of touch to detect the tiniest of "takes". I have never heard of a fly rod angler who figured a heavier rod would improve his ability to "sense" takes. I have fished nymphs and worms since "Creme worms" came out over 50 years ago. Building more sensitive rods by making them heavier is new to fly rodders and me too.

Just like fly fishing -- Keep in touch with the line IMHO is the only way to keep in touch with the lure where the fish bite Don't make your rod heaver

Bill - willierods.com

Phil,

I never claimed a balanced rod is a more sensitive rod. Quite the opposite. Adding weight of any kind is going to decrease sensitivity, but where that weight is added is very significant to the effect it will have on the rod's sensitivity. Adding weight near the tip where the rod is lightest and most flexible is not a good idea. Adding weight to the butt is still not the best idea, but one pays a much smaller penalty for it.

Some will argue that a tip light worm rod will help with bite detection. In this scenario, the lure is at rest on the bottom of the lake most of the time with slack taken out of the line, and the lure is moved with the rod, a situation where the most sensitive rod in the world tells the angler nothing. In this scenario when a fish picks up the worm and moves toward the angler the tension in the line is reduced and the tip rises slightly indicating that a fish is on. This is a component of bite detection that can be enhanced with a weighted rod. Personally, I choose not to add weight to my personal rods, but if I ever encounter a scenario where a rod is so tip heavy that it is uncomfortable to fish, I will carefully weigh my options.

I'll be honest in that I have no fly casting skill whatsoever. I've attempted to cast a fly rod a few times, and calling it an attempt is generous. However, do you always use the smallest lightest reel that you can on a rod, or have you ever chosen to use a larger reel with a rod for any reason other than line capacity? The design of fly rods puts the reel at the butt, and changing reels can be used in exactly the same manner as adding a balancer to a casting or spinning rod. Unfortunately with casting rods, the reels weight is concentrated very close to the rod's fulcrum. Spinning reel size can be used a bit to help with balance due to the center of mass being farther from the rod, but not to the extent of changing a fly reel.

Sorry, you are mixing apples and oranges. I agree, adding weight kills the sensitivity of any rod but fly rods are not instruments where sensitivity is a big priority. Most are casting tools, feeling strikes is usually not very difficult.

On a bass rod where sensitivity is an important attribute, guides should be light, wraps short and don't go crazy on the finish.

steve george Wrote:
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> don't go crazy on the finish.


That was another important lesson learned.

To answer the question - Pac Bay Minima's are very hard to beat for multiple reasons. I have a hard time using anything else on spinning and casting rods these days.

Thanks - Marc

Keep it simple - that's all I can handle!

Considering myself a pretty serious and experienced bass fisherman, Joe's earlier statement that some people argue that a tip light worm rod, meaning slack line presentations, will help with bite detection, is spot on. I am one of those that will argue the case that it does. And really, IMO it isn't even an argument. Plain and simple. It helps.

As Joe said, bite detection with slack line techniques consists of more than just the actual sensitivity of the rod the angler is using. The ability of an angler to detect subtle changes in line tension, or "weigh the line" is one of the aspects that a well balance or tip light rod, enhances. And one that comes into play in a lot of bass fishing scenarios.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2015 07:14AM by David Baylor.

Excellent post David Baylor! Couldnt agree more

Fishing alot for winter smallies, soaking hair jigs and small plastics in wintering holes, a balanced rod that sits tip up in hand is a MUST! " Helps detect subtle changes in line tension". Nuff said.......Sometimes those bites feel like nothing more than a damp leaf caught your hook.