I just noticed something while applying Flexcoat CP to guide thread wraps - it wicks into the guide tunnels and pretty much fills them. Is this ok or should I always try to get it out so the epoxy can wick into the tunnel?

Jon Hood

This is a subject with widely differing opinions. You might want to do a forum search and get a broader view. you can also look down about 30 posts in the forum for the most recent thread on this subject.

The rods I build experience pretty severe duty, so I'm in the no CP on guide wraps camp. At the same time CP on guide wraps is a common practice. My best advice is if you don't experience epoxy failure down the road from not getting epoxy down the tunnels don't worry about it. If you do have problems down the road, you might want to rethink the use of CP on guide wraps.

The CP will perform the same function as epoxy insofar as filling the thread tunnels. It creates a shoulder against the sides of the guide feet to stabilize the guide.

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When I put on CP, I put on a soaking coat, then move to the next guide until all are done, then go back after wiping the brush off and wick away any excess.

I'd be interested in how to get CP out of the tunnels if I decided to do that. Or even how to avoid getting it into the tunnels. Sort of an acedemic question rather than practical.

After wicking off the excess, turn the rod so the guide is facing down. May be difficult if you are doing a spiral wrap on the guides. I have never had a problem with air in the guide foot tunnels, so I haven't experienced this problem, but if I did that is what I would try.

I've been thinking about this. The only idea i've had is to apply the CP to only the bottom of the wrap, with the guide on top. Then wait to see if the CP will wick up the thread. Maybe some heat applied to the top would help the wicking action, maybe not. I haven't tried this yet. It on on my list of things to experiment with.

Being a newbie, my procedures are far from being set in stone. But, so far I use CP on lighter duty rods, and go without on heavy duty rods. I have yet to determine just where the line is.

Because CP is water based, the application of heat only evaporates the water base more quickly, thickening it and reducing it's "wet" life. If you want it to "wick" anywhere, you need to keep it cool for a longer period so that it will remain "wet."

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Tom is right on. I never use heat to speed up the drying of CP. Let it flow and wick off the excess as described.

Thanks Tom. That is what I suspected, but, since I've not yet done the experiment, I thought I would throw it out there and see what more experienced people thought.

all I did when I noticed this was take a straw and lightly blow on the outside of the threads where the foot starts and it pushed the excess out - I just thought that if this was a common occurrence and normal, I would just leave it alone next
next time.

Jon Hood

I find this discussion interesting, but a bit bewildering. Like many of you I have been building rods for many years. When I first started building rods, we had a type of model airplane lacquer for CP and varnish for a finish. That CP was rather difficult to work with because the solvent in the lacquer evaporated so quickly. I was told that if you don't apply CP, your wraps will turn very dark. I experimented and found that to be true. I personally don't like that darkening and always use CP on all my rods. This is a personal choice. There are some misleading ideas about CP and finish in terms of the strength of the finished wrap. I have read some studies about the comparable strength of such wraps on this forum. These studies were the type where you continue to add weight to each wrap until one or both of the guides comes loose. In this case the CP and finish comes loose before the wrap that has only finish on it. However the study also indicated that both guides were bent and twisted under this amount of weight. Further, the weight necessary to do cause this damage is far in excess of any force that a fish can exert. To me this means that the relative strength is a moot point.

In terms of applying CP I think the easiest way is to first apply CP in the tunnels by holding a rod section vertical and then placing a fly tying Bodkin in the CP and allow the CP to drain down the needle until there is a small ball of CP at the end of the needle. Let this ball of CP enter the tunnel until it is filled. When you have filled all of the tunnels allow it to rest in a vertical position for about ten minutes. Now turn the rod section over (for two footed guides) and repeat the process of filling the other tunnels. Allow this to rest for about ten minutes. Now if you are using a power wrapper, attach your rod section to the wrapper and turn it on at an RPM that is rather fast, but doesn't throw CP off the wrap by centrifugal force . You can coat an entire section of rod in two or three minutes. When finished, reduce the speed of your wrapper and check for any sags. Remove any sags with your brush. I apply at least two coats of CP and sometimes three. A third coat brings out just a hint f gloss. For CP I use the little plastic nylon brushes unless it is a long wrap. For longer wraps I use a 1/4 inch sable brush which I also use for applying finish. I find this process an easy way to prevent bubbles and get a nice finish

The only reason to apply either finish or CP in the tunnels is to expel air that might be trapped and which will create bubbles. By filling them with CP there is no need to fill them with finish.


Mike Blomme

Michael,

The cumulative effect of load and bending is what's important, not a single twist to failure test. It comes down to the fact that you have a blank which bends easily, and a metal guide foot which does not. A third material, a composite of CP or epoxy and thread is tasked to hold them together for the life of the rod. Depending on a myriad of factors sometimes CP/thread works and sometimes it fails. However, all things being equal, epoxy/thread is stronger over time than CP/thread. Do you need this extra durability and strength at the cost of color darkening? Only you can be the judge.

Yea But The thread is what holds the guides on If finish could those threadless wraps would be around more
CP and finish are there to protect the threads from the environment,

Bill - willierods.com