I am planning my next rod build and need some help with guide selection. First let me describe my fishing situation so you have the full picture - I am an avid crappie fisherman but not in the traditional sense, I live in RI (Not the state you associate with cane poling crappie on a sunny day) my home town lake hold some really nice crappie, but they tend to school and hold in deep water most of the time. I fish for them out of my bass tracker hovering over a 40' deep spot with my TM on spot lock (electric anchor), I find the depth they are holding and count down very small 1/16 oz jigs and wait for the "THUMP". I spend hours and hours just listening to country music and hunting for the sweet spot where they are holding. Now onto my question - I am planning to build the lightest most sensitive vertical jigging rod possible that will allow me to have as much contact and connection with the line as possible because often the bite is super lite. By blank selection is MHX 4'6" crappie blank (I like to fish just off the side of the boat that is why I chose the shortest full size blank possible) with a Fuji SK2 spinning seat. Reel will be a light weight Sedona 500 with 6 lb powerpro braid. In an effort to reduce the weight and hopefully increase the sensitivity as much as possible I was considering using some Fuji micro guides. Now bare in mind that this rod will be strictly used the way I described above and essentially will "NEVER" be casted. So casting distance is of no consideration as it will be only used vertical jigging. Do you think the micro guides are the way to go? I have read other posts about micro guides not being a good choice for salt water jigging rods due to the stress placed on them, I am thinking my application will be a lot less stressful on the guides and blanks.

Any suggestions or guidance will be much appreciated.

TomD

Tom,
Since you are doing something a bit unique, here is another twist that you might consider.

Rather than using the sedona 500, with the 6 lb braid, consider the use of the in line reels that are currently getting quite popular for ice fishing.

One of the new - fly fishing style reels that are currently coming onto the market for ice fishing.

[www.amazon.com]

I would go with a cork handle that is 5 inches long and use a double wrap of tape on each end of the reel to hold it to the handle.

Rather than relying so much on "feel" especially since often - a crappie bites from below and actually pushes the bait up, consider the use of a flexible tipped glass rod.

I know that when I am ice fishing (vertically jigging) for Crappie's in the winter - I am much more successful with a long tipped "noodle" rod so to speak, rather than a more typical sensitive graphite rod.

-----------------------
For this style fishing the reel type that I listed above give you the advantage of ultra light weight, low cost and next to no loops caused by line spooling off a spinning reel.

Another big benefit of this style reel, is that you could use a stripper guide of about size 8 and then go down to size 4 runners to the tip.

By using the short cork grip only with no reel seat - you further reduce the weight of the rod.

Good luck on any choice that you make.


By the way, I very often see a bunch of folks in a boat using rods like this on the lake in the summer time fishing just over the side of the boat and catching lots of Crappies.

Very light weight rigs and a great way to catch these fun fish.

Be safe

Roger

Thanks for the advice - I to am an ice junkie and fish these same coordinates through the ice. My rod of choice through the ice is exactly what you described - I have a thorne bro's powernoodle with recoil guides paired with a 13fish 6061 inline reel - very effective sight fishing rig when paired with my marcum.

My current open water rig I am using for this style of fishing is a 4'6" BnM crappie stalker (very soft tip) with the same sedona reel I am planning. The problem with this set up is that I truly enjoy the challenge of feeling the "thump" and quick hook set needed to catch the light biters, and my BnM rig is so soft that it is sight fishing only.

The idea about only using a cork handle with no seat has me thinking..... Do you have any suggestion on guides I should use?

Thanks again

TomD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 01:32PM by Tom DiBiasio.

Tom,

The micros will get the job done with absolutely no problem. Use your choice of 3mm or 4mm ceramic guides for the running guides. For a 500 sized reel, I would likely use a 16mm Y frame and 8mm Y frame for the reduction guides.

One other suggestion would be to go to taller match frames for the reduction guides. You can find these from PacBay, probably Batson, or similar heights wit the Fuji K series guides. With the taller frames you could go to something like 12mm and 6mm for the reduction guides.

In order to keep weight down, you could go with Minima 12mm and 6mm in the M (match frame) and if you prefer ceramics for the runners, that's fine.

Since the rod isn't used for casting, you could likely drop the reduction guides by another size if you really want.

The rod I use most for crappies these days is a Batson IP840 trimmed from the butt to 6'8". It's used with a 10 sized Quantum reel that is wrapped with thread and finish onto a section of woven graphite tubing in a split TN handle configuration. The TN handle will save a good bit of weight and boost your ability to feel the bite. The guides on that rod are 20mm and 10mm Y frame, then a 5mm fly guide at the choker position and 3mm running guides. Crappies in one of my local Ohio lakes were shallow yesterday <6' deep and coming up to eat crankbaits. It was pretty fun. One even came up and took it on top of the water as soon as it landed. I'm sure if I had some jigs in the boat, I could have caught a ton, but unfortunately the crappie jigs were at home.

Joe



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 01:55PM by Joe Vanfossen.

Personally I would go with Recoil guides. They are incredibly light and their ring size is large compared to others due to the lack of an insert. I am not an expert at guide trains, but I would get down to a size 5 or 5.5 for runners with a micro tip (Fuji Titanium). I don't know much about that blank, but in my experience a rod that is too "whippy" will lack some sensitivity. My personal recommendation would be:
-St. Croix SC5 blank - 6'6" Light, cut down to you preferred length with a all cork handle and recoil guides.

One other crazy recommendation is to look at a solid carbon ice rod blank and extend it a bit. They are incredibly sensitive and could be what you're looking for. A fiberglass noodle blank might work well also as it has a strike indicating tip.

Hey Joe

Would it be possible for you to post a picture of the setup you described? It sounds very interesting to me but am having trouble envisioning exactly how it is set up.

Thanks

TomD

I fish crappie the same way, only in 15-20' water. The reason I got into rod building is, like you, I want a specific setup that you can't find on the store rack.
My preference is to feel for the bite. Soft tips don't work for open water because with boat movement you have a hard time seeing what the real bite is.
I start with a St Croix 2s60lf and trim 3" off the tip to stiffen it up so it won't absorb the bite. If I need to go shorter, I trim the rest from the butt. I plan the length from reel stem to tip so when fishing, the tip is over the transducer (on the trolling motor). So I can jig right under the transducer and see my depth and watch for fish to come - just like ice fishing.
I only use a 1/2" cork for the foregrip so I can have my thumb and index finger on the blank. I also hook the line with my index finger so I can feel the weight on the line whether it's a slightly more weight of a fish draggin on it, or the weight lift on an up-bite.
I thought about recoil guides, but the cost was too much for a low end panfish rod so I use PacBay Minima. I like those a lot.
I also use fluorocarbon line since it sinks and helps get the jig down faster and stay down as the boat moves. It's also sensitive.

I posted pics of my first rod on the photos page to give you an idea what I did. I'm refining a bit as I do more, such as using SCIII and smaller guides. The SCIII seems a little stiffer than SCII so it probably doesn't even need the tip trimmed. I need to compare in actual use to decide which I like best.

John Shear
Chippewa Falls, WI

Tom,
For this type fishing, there is no reason to use expensive recoil guides, or any guides with inserts in them for that matter.
A good option would be to use single foot fly guides. Very very light and easy to use and dirt cheap. Another option would be to use pac bay minima guides - Use a size 8 for a stripper and then go to all 4's for runners to the tip
You are not casting, and you are using braid. Limp line with no casting requirement. No reason at all to have a tall first stripper guide. Also, if you use the fly style reel, you can go down to a size 6 guide for a stripper if you wish.

But, both Pac Bay minimas or single foot fly guides, or even snake guides would be a good light inexpensive option for this rod and would work extremely well.

Be safe

Roger is right on !! It is still a fishing rod nothing special about it
Some posts here say they use Minima Guides for heavy saltwater rods I don't know but heck it is a Crappy rod
I woud say a at least a 6' mod-fast Done Crappy and you will fell the bight - For sure

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 07:19PM by bill boettcher.

Tom,

Here is a shot of one with the reel wrapped on. [www.rodbuilding.org]

Here's a variation with a plate seat wrapped on woven graphite where you can see the end of the EVA butt grip. [www.rodbuilding.org]

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 07:56PM by Joe Vanfossen.

Try an Aero real seat with solid arbors, and what ever rear grip you prefer. Using either a 6061-2015 black Betty or a tear drop black Betty will get the job done with no line twist. Single foot fly guides and a fly tip top would be my choice, and I would use a fluorocarbon leader attached to nanofile.. or straight Fluorocarbon for that matter, as it will load the rod slightly because it does not float, and allow you to detect those light pick ups. This will also allow you to use a small jig, or even a gulp minnow with a split shot up the line about a foot, on a # 12 treble hook.