Hi everyone, it's me again

As the thread title says, I messed up my jerkbait rod. I won't go into the gorey details. Instead I'll just say that an experiment in extending a rod blank wouldn't have produced the rod I was hoping for. Being a bit disheartened by the would be results, and curious as to what the affects of trimming 6" off the butt of a blank would be .. the remaining piece of blank will be turned into a reamer, and probably an ice fishing rod. lol

Since I no longer have a jerkbait rod, my #1 priority is now building a rod to replace the one I demolished. Mr. Roger Wilson, your predictive Nostradomus type words that I'd probably have a few failures along the road of learning, have come to fruition. Personally I was hoping the first one would have waited until after I built my first rod. lol

After having about a 5 minute chat with a Mudhole employee (I wish I would have gotten his name) who listened patiently as I told him the type of rod I was wanting to build, and what kind of attributes I wanted the blank to have, I started asking him about a particular blank from the MHX spin jig line. I told him I thought the blank number I mentioned would be what I was looking for after trimming 6" off the butt. He stopped me dead in my tracks saying, "It sounds like a blank from our Shooter series is the type of blank you're looking for, and its a 6' blank." The model number of the blank he suggested matched the one that I was considering prior to destroying my jerkbait rod.

So anyhow, that made me very happy. I have my shopping cart for the rod saved pending some answers to a couple of pre order questions I hope to get some help with.

1.) I want to use a straight EVA foam rear grip. Would I be better served to buy a piece of straight EVA foam with a 3/8" ID and ream it to fit, or buy a straight rear grip closer to the length that I want the grip to be, that as an 1/2" ID, and build the blank up at reel seat end of the grip, to accpect the 1/2" ID? The butt on the blank is .521. I did some math, and assuming a linear butt to tip, taper, my calculations give me a blank diameter of .477 where the rear grip would end. I realize the actual taper of the blank may not be linear, but I'm assuming I would at least be in the ball park, numbers wise. I'd have no problem building up the blank with drywall tape if that would be the best procedure to use, but just how tight on the blank do I want the grip to be? And how much trouble might I expect to have pushing a tight EVA grip past a product like mesh drywall tape?

2.) I'm planning on using a gold anodized aluminum trim ring between the rear grip and reel seat, but the OD of the ring is not listed. It's the CRB trim ring. Would anyone happen to know the OD of that trim ring off hand. It's not listed on their web site, nor in their catalog. I realize the trim ring is designed for use on a tenon, but neither the straight EVA grip or EVA grip material, which ever may be the better choice, have a tenon on them. I feel pretty confident that I could cut or sand down the material to form a tenon. I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips for doing that, or if it's something I need to do? If it matters, the reel seat I plan on using is a Fuji TCSD 17, with a gold hood.

3.) I've done a lot of reading and watched more than a couple of videos on arbors for reel seats. Some serious debates in past thread on this site BTW. lol Without getting into a which is better thing ..... I'll just say that I will be one of the pre made arbor guys. My question is ... is a full length arbor better than say 3 or 4 smaller ones spaced evenly? In reading the arbor debates Tom Kirkman presented a method that I found very intriguing and one that I think would work quite well. Smaller arbors pre fitted for their relative position on the blank. then sliding the reel seat on. Two stages of the gluing process performed in fairly rapid succession. Sounds beautifully easy and accurate to me.

4.) My final question. I'm going to be carrying a black with gold trim theme throughout the entire rod. ATC ring lock guides with gold nano plasma rings, and gold trim wraps on all the guides. The problem in my minds eye is, this would all look much better on a black blank. MHX are slate colored, so I'm wanting to do a blank color change. I've done more than a lot of reading through past threads to get a few ideas, and was happy to see that my first thought was one that was rigorously discussed. Tinting Perma Gloss. The three rods I have refinished in the past, I put a light coat of Perma Gloss on them. They came out very well, with the last one being almost perfect. I know from reading that adding a pigment to Perma Gloss really only results as being a tint. My question is, how much of a tint can I expect to get from Perma Gloss without affecting its drying and durability properties? I don't have any slate colored blanks that I could try the tinted Perma Gloss on, unless I sand the brown finish off one of the rods I cut up for my failed experiment. Would the color of bare graphite match the color of an MHX slate colored blank? If so I'll have scrap pieces to experiment on.

I will say that I'm a bit OCD about finish work. So if more than one or two coats of tinted Perma Gloss won't do the trick, I have no qualms about painting the blank with a light coat of urethane, and then applying a coat of Perma Gloss over it. If I do end up having to paint the blank, which process would you feel would give the best results. I have a couple of air brushes with tips from 1mm to 5mm. I could air brush it, and wet sand if needed, or could I use the sponge application that I read about applying Perma Gloss, with the urethane paint? Any ideas on what those in the know feel may produce the best results?


That's about it for the questions I have. Hopefully you fine members can help to point me in the right direction. Some day I'll get to the point in the countdown to where my internal guidance system will be on, but for now I'm at T minus 10 seconds and counting. An appreciative thank you in advance for any and all replies I may recieve.

You men and women really do rock



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2015 12:30PM by David Baylor.

Hi Dave,

1. I usually get the 3/8" ID EVA and ream to fit. If you put enough epoxy on the blank to get the EVA to slide into place, especially with blanks with diameters that close to the ID, you don't need to ream it, but I prefer to remove the excess weight, even if it is just a little, and also, I don't have to worry about whether or not I'll get the grip to slide far enough.

2. To create a tenon on EVA, you can mount your grip on a drill bit in a drill, using masking tape to arbor the grip for a snug fit. Then to make the clean edge, I use a piece of fishing line held to the spinning grip. With slight pressure, it will cut right through the EVA. Do not wrap the line around your fingers while doing this. Then a strip of sandpaper or a sanding block can be used to turn down the tenon to the desired OD.

3. For a non exposed blank seat, I typically use the white full length arbors. They are easy to ream, very light and rigid, and work quite well. For exposed blank seats, I will typically use one of the shorter gray colored arbors, or cut off a chunk of a white one. If using the smaller arbors, 2 fairly close to the ends of the seat would likely get the job done, but adding a third isn't going to be a big penalty to pay. Gluing the arbor in the seat first can help make it easier to ream. On an exposed blank seat, unless I need to ream the arbor so that it has really thin walls, it's not uncommon for me to fit the seat and arbor separately. It just depends on the situation, the supplies on hand, and how I decide to proceed wit the arbor.

4. The bare graphite will be very similar to the slate color of the MHX blank. Personally, I would not paint the blank, but if the difference between black and slate is important to you, then painting will be your best option.

As far as a blank, I think what you are looking for is something very similar to a 4 power Falcon in 6'. I have a couple 6'6" 4 power Falcons that I began stripping, but never finished because those blanks are an absolute pain to strip. The problem is that after you shorten them 6" they aren't going to be good for the upper limit on the lure weights you want to use. Those blanks have the moderate action you want, a tip to cast the lures you want, and mid and butt section with more power than a typical cranking blank, but not like a fast action worm/jig rod. I haven't found anything else quite like them yet on the market of .

That has me thinking, maybe the MHX MB782 1/4-5/8oz. with 6" off the butt might be close. I might have to pry it away from my bother-in-law long enough to make some comparisons. That blank was a little softer in the mid section than I expected from a blank in the MB category, and just might fit the bill. If there is anyone that could come up with a quick response, it might be Lance at Swampland Tackle. They have loads of experience matching blanks for tourney fishermen, and just might be able to point you in the right direction.

Of course, there is always the glass blank I mentioned when we started talking about that build ;). I'm almost positive the rod you are looking for is in that blank, if chopped up properly. It's just not graphite.

Joe

Ya I know I will catch @#$%& on this
But yopu can repair that and add the 6" back to it
I have done it many times as long as you clean the inside of the rod and the outside of the new sectin It will not fail

Bill - willierods.com

X10 on Bill's comment.

Easy to put the 6 inches back on the butt of the rod. Put an oversleeve on it, overlapping the joint by 3 inches on each side.

Then, put on a full length grip, and ream it as necessary for the size of the oversleeve, and go finish the rest of the rod.

If you have not trimmed the tip, and ruined the tip, it should be a great rod.

Be safe

I would beg to differ
if the inside of the blank is CLEANED to get the RELEASE AGENT out from it and the outside of the new piece cleaned I have done many with a new section inserted into the blank Glued with a Slow Cure Epoxy - better bond IMHO

Anything over 6" I would think of an oversleeve 6" cleaned well no Did many and have not had any problems

Bill - willierods.com

I have used this inside splice to extend several rods.
If you haven't already chopped up the blank, you should repair it for two reasons.

First it costs nothing to try!
If you don't like the result, the guides are recyclable, you are only out a reel seat and an EVA handle.

Second, you need the experience.
My #1 suggestion to you would be to buy two of the cheapest rod kits you can find.
Get-Bit generally has some good ones.
Build these two rods.
The experience will answer many questions and put your mind at rest about others.
Then armed with your own real knowledge and new self-confidence, you can venture forth again on this search for the Holy-Grail of Jerk Bait rods.

FYI...I once bought about a dozen rod kits on a close-out.
I built them for practice and to try out things I had only read about.
One was a Pac-Bay IM-6 MH 6.5 foot casting rod, which I did up as a "revolver."
The following spring I used it for Pike, throwing a big 3 hook Husky Jerk.
This slightly softer blank made the big Rapala come to life.

Joe, thanks for responding sir. I've adjusted my order on the EVA foam for making the rear grip. The added length that the smaller I.D. pieces come in is going to provide with some extra material to experiment with, Which is always a good thing at this stage of my rod building experience. The process you described for making a tenon is exactly what I was thinking. 50# braid should do quite well. I do have a question about reaming the EVA though. I'll be making my own reamers, copies of the Dream Reamers, and will be buying the abrasive strip that Mudhole carries. I'd assume that the 36 grit would be better than the 50 grit for taking out more material in cork or EVA foam, but would it be too course for reaming arbors? Or would the more coarse grit be good for the inside of the arbors because it would allow more glue to stay inside the arbor? I only plan on making one set for right now, so it's going to be one grit or the other.

I also added one of the FC arbors to my order in addition to the shorter Fuji graphite arbors I already had on my list. I don't have the funds for one of those sweet FC pilot bits right now, so I'll be fitting the arbors to the blank in the manner that Tom Kirkman described in the one past thread I mentioned earlier.

As far as the rod blank color goes ... I'll see what I think the components will look like on the slate blank when they get here, but based on the private messages we've exchanged on the other web site we both belong to, you know that I have pretty specific ideas of what I want out of a rod. To the point of maybe being too stubborn about it. But I've been bass fishing a long time, and you know how we bass fisherman can be about our tackle. lol

As for the blank I'm looking at ... I know that when we first talked about me having this rod built, that I do double duty as a jerkbait and shorter square bill / top water rod. I know a faster action rod with a little less bend in the mid section than a moderate fast action would have, would be a better tool for jerkbaits, So that's why I was looking at a different blank. I still plan on building the rod we were talking about, But it's going to be pretty much a dedicated square bill rod, built on that same cropped crankbait blank that we talked about. In the time since we last talked about building that rod, and now, I did some research on that Rich Forhan blank you mentioned and see they aren't as heavy as the E glass blanks on the first crankbait specific rod I bought long ago. I plan on talking to you about them at the up coming ORBS gathering.

I hadn't really considered a mag taper blank for this jerkbait rod because of extended butt section they have. Of course all of my experience with rods with that kind of taper are medium heavy, or heavy action worm and jig rods, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with my thinking. The one blank that I was considering that would need to be cropped is an MHX SJ783. It has the same ratings as the MB 782 you mentioned, just minus the mag taper. My thinking was that the more progressive taper would result in a blank with more bend into the mid section, and still have the lively tip. When I did my experiment with cutting 6" off the butt of my old jerkbait rod, I was pleasantly surprised. It didn't seem like the blank lost much power, but the of course the bend was further into the butt of the rod, but the tip was still quite lively.

Anyhow .... when I was talking to the guy at Mudhole about cropping the SJ blank, that's when he brought up the CS 723 blank. Even though I had mentioned that blank in a previous thread on here, I hadn't said a word about that blank in our conversation up until the point he brought it up. I was kind of steered away from that blank, but to be totally fair and honest. I didn't really fully described what I was looking to achieve, in the other thread. Joe, once again thank you for your response. It is very much appreciated. And if you would, look for a PM from me on that other web site. I'm going to be placing this order over the weekend, and I have a couple of questions concerning trim details n such.

Bill, Roger, and Garry. I'd like to thank you all for your responses. They truly are very much appreciated. I haven't cut the remaining blank up yet, In a thread prior to this one I described the rod I was taking the blank from. The rod used a pre assembled handle. With the rod blank inserted into the reel seat about 3", so the blank I cropped 6" off was only 61 3/4" to begin with. I'd end up having to make a 3 piece rod if I wanted to the rod to have an over all length of 6'. Right now with the extension piece that I have, and a 4" overlap of the two pieces, the rods finished length would be 5'8". Since I have plenty of blank material to make reamers out of, I was thinking that I would some day just go ahead and build the rod. It could be a really nice little rod for tossing smaller top water baits around cover.

Garry, you're definitely right. I do need the experience. lol And your suggestion to get a couple of cheap rod kits and use them to learn from, is a great idea. I guess I have that luxury, but then again I really don't. I already have a LOT of fishing rods, and everyone I know already have a lot of rods. If I were build rods that I really don't want, or need, it would be a waste of money to me. Yes I would be learning and could possibly save myself a lot of money by learning on something less expensive than what I plan on building. But, I don't know that I really need the baby steps in the assembling process of rod building. Having only replaced the guides on three of my rods and a minor repair of a spinning reel seat and a fore grip, my experience is very limited, But I have the utmost confidence that I can make the right pieces fit right, and in their proper places. My novice is in choosing the pieces that I need to start out with, before I can start to make them fit. Garry? When you say "revolver" does that have to do with the type of handle on the rod i.e. pistol grip? Or does it mean something else. Terminology is also something I need to work on. I remember the first time I read the term "top shot" if the people hadn't been talking about knots passing through guides, I would have had no idea they were referring to a leader. lol

Anyhow, if it isn't evident already, I truly love talking about fishing tackle. It doesn't matter that it 3 below outside and seemingly has been for months. I'd still be just as enthusiastic about getting into rod building as I am now. Thank you again everyone. you truly are kind gentlemen.

Revolver, Acid Wrap, Spiral Wrap...
These are all terms for a casting rod with the running guides on the bottom of the blank, like a spinning rod.

Top Shots are generally saltwater leaders where the mono or Fluoro is inserted into hollow core braided line.
The mono/fluoro is held in place without a knot, by the weave of the braid closing down on it, like what we used to call Chinese handcuffs.
The working end of the running line has a knotless loop, as does the braided end of the leader.
The two loops are slipped through each other forming a square knot so that the leader can be wound through the guides but still be quickly disconnected.

I still think you should do a cheap rod first, you can always give it away or donate it to something.
The cost would be $40.00 and you would gain first-hand experience.

Do what you like, but I predict your next flock of posts will be about finish problems.

Garry, thank you for your response. Revolver, ok I get it. Before I joined this web site I had only heard it called a spiral wrap. I remember when it was a new concept in guide placement. I believe Doug Hannon was credited as being the one that came up with it. But I could be mistaken

Thank you for the describing what a top shot is as well. Sounds like a neat little deal.

And I understand your suggestion that I should still build a cheaper rod to get the feel for it, It's sound advice. Finish problems? I'd be foolish to say I won't have any. And if I do, I won't be embarrassed to admit it in this forum just because you predicted I'll have them.

Again, thank you for your response.

BTW, I just got done placing the order with Mudhole about a half an hour ago, so you be sure and keep an eye out for that flock of posts I'll have about finish problems. It should be about two weeks or so.

Hahaha...
There is a learning curve in this, as in other pursuits.

My first ordered was four rods a winder and a couple of kits with tools, thread and finish etc.
My plan was to build two throw-away rods, to get my chops down, then the two I really wanted...

What do they say about "TheBest Laid Plans?" Grin.

My keeper rods arrived from Mudhole, but my throw-aways were back ordered from a big box store that no longer handles rod building stuff.
After looking at the keeper parts for a few days, I bit the bullet and built my #2 rod, then my #1...

Months later one of the Throw-aways came but the other never again became available.

Ironically, I had more trouble with that third rod than the other two...Perhaps I was becoming vain, thinking I had this all figured out.
Perhaps it was just I was using quick set epoxy for the first time.

After that, I went through some finish troubles. These were probably based on poor measuring practices.
Whatever the reason, these too passed as I gained experience.

Garry, I'm glad you saw the humor I intended with my last sentence. I truly do understand and appreciate your cautioning me about thinking that rod building is too easy. I know it's much more than just assembling a bunch of pieces and viola, you come up with a beautiful rod. I'm sure there's an art to building even the most basic rod. And there's definitely progression in the learning curve. I can see the difference from the first rod that I refinished the blank and put new guides on, to the last one I did it on.

I think I've chosen pretty basic components for my first build. I would have preferred a split reel seat, but went with a standard one piece reel seat because I wasn't real sure about doing a split seat as a first build. I've had experience putting EVA foam on aluminum and steel tubing in the past, so other than questioning how tight it should be on a rod blank, it's not something I haven't worked with before. And guides are guides from what I've seen so far.. As long as I take my time prepping and wrapping them, they'll be fine.

I'm sure I'll make mistakes, but I expect to. Like you said "the best laid plans" I have evidence of that sitting in two pieces in a spare bedroom. lol If only that blank would have slid as far into the extension piece as I thought it would. lol

Anyhow.... again, I appreciate your words of caution. Believe me, having just placed an order for $169 for the parts to build a single rod. I will be taking my time, and I know I'll be able to do as good of a job as a factory rod in that price range.

I'm a builder, and have been pretty much my whole working life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2015 08:37PM by David Baylor.

The so called spiral wrap was first patented in 1909 by a gentleman named John Scanlan. He may or may not be the first to come up with the idea. It's been around, in various forms, for well over a century now.

.............

Ahhh .... thank you Tom. I kind of figured it had probably been around longer than when Doug Hannon could have came up with it. I wonder if he was just credited with bringing it to the freshwater fishing world. No matter.

Thanks again for the history lesson.

Rich Forhan brought it to the fishing world insofar as the modern history of the concept. I've never seen a rod from Doug that featured a spiral wrap, although he might have produced one at some point.

..............

It was either the late 70's or early 80's that I remember first hearing about a spiral wrap. Doug had a small segment on the Bass Masters TV show titled "The Bass Professor" If I remember correctly, he and another guy were fishing live shiners in bull rushes and cattails somewhere down in Florida for big bass. He touted the pulling and lifting power of a spiral wrap. I don't remember him mentioning anything about rod torque though.