looking to build a 6.0 casting Rod for a light lure presentation as in a softer lure landing on the water so what do you guys think should I go with a slow med/fast or fast action tip.

6.0 Med power Rod

Lure's to be used 1/4oz Rattle Traps or lower To 3/8 to 1/4 to 1/2 oz Spinner baits for bass With 14 LB mono 20 LB mono to 30 LB braid line.
Will be using 20LB mono for most part

Guys when it all comes down to the fast action or med/fast Action I was just thinking that one my couse a faster harder wipe back into the water with one or the other cousing a bit and harder landing into the water over a softer landing.

Glenn McMurrian



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2015 12:24PM by Glenn McMurrian.

I would use a fast action rod and cast more softly. If you find that hard to do, a slower action would likely not allow you to really "zip" a cast in place so that may suit you better.

..............

I as well would stick with a fast action but maybe step the power down so the rod loads more easily. If the rod doesn't load well you may find yourself forcing casts which can be inaccurate and noisy.

I would suggest give the lure weight and line and fish you are going to use and maybe someone here has went thought some blanks and found the right one

Bill - willierods.com

Much of what you are asking about depends on your casting technique

I really don't know whether a fast tip or a slow tip is going to make any difference at all with respect to how the lure lands in the water.

I suspect that it has a lot more to do with how high the lure is when it casts, and how much altitude it has to kill before it hits the water.

For example, if you do an over hand cast and cast the lure to the moon - so to speak, you might have the lure falling straight down from 50 feet.

But, if you do a side arm cast where the lure never gets to more than a few feet above the water, and if you stop the lure while the lure is still in the air, you will now have a falling lure with 0 velocity falling to the water from a height of 2 feet. This would be a very soft entry indeed.

The fast tipped rod will give a great amount of initial acceleration on the lure due to the higher initial tip speed of the lure. So you are really snapping the lure out on the initial part of the cast. But, once the lure is on the way, whether the rod is fast or slow tends to blur out. However, if you do have a fast tipped rod and clamp off the cast, you are going to get that lure to stop instantly, assuming that you don't break the line and you don't burn your thumb from stopping the spinning spool.

On the other hand, the slow tipped rod has a much slower initial acceleration to the lure, but at the end of the cast will still have the same final casting velocity. Then, when you go to stop the lure, you will be less likely to either break your line, or burn your thumb stopping the lure, because the softer rod tip will absorb the force from the lure slow down.

Certainly how hard or soft you cast - with either rod, and whether you use a high over head cast, or a low side arm cast will have a great deal to do with how the lure enters the water.

If you relate this to a fly rod, fly rods are long soft slow rods, so that the fly can be accelerated slowly,. and then the line can be laid out on the water, with the fly gently touching down after the line rolls out on the surface of the water.

Be safe

Well, you have heard from the rod building gurus.
Let me share some observations from on the water.
I have Loomis crankbait rods, which are slower, and spinnerbait /worm rods which are faster.
So long as the bait being cast is within the approved range of the rod, there isn't much difference from one to the other.
The difference is when you set the hook.
The softer rod loads up more slowly, so it is slightly harder to set the hook, but it is more forgiving if the fish goes south while I'm going west.
If I had to choosing only one rod, I'd go with the faster one. I prefer the solid hook sets.

For my cranks and surface I prefer slower actions, like the Loomis's described by Garry. Especially for surface lures, it's easy to be too fast on the hook set with a fast action and slower actions are more forgiving. I think they are more comfortable to cast and a little easier to cast well. For spinner baits I much much (much) prefer fast actions. Part of it is that with spinnerbaits I'm into weeds a lot and faster actions allow snapping through the weeds better. I think how the lure lands depends on how you end the cast, not on the action of the rod. I respectfully disagree that any action is fast enough to burn a thumb or break a reasonable line at the end of the cast.

I would decide which type of lure has priority and build for that. Later build another with the other action. You just cannot have too many rods. If you pick your components right you can keep the costs well in check to allow more rods. There are blanks that match the Loomis crankbait actions and cost less than half what the Loomis blanks used to cost. There are good, inexpensive seats, and you don't need top of the line guides whether you use braid or mono or flouro. Just put a premium tiptop on. You can make grips much smaller than traditional to save cork costs, (use St Croix casting grips as a model) split the grip for the same reason. Look for cork on sale.

In addition to what Michael has said; one very good way to save money on a rod, is to use EVA or Hypalon for grip material. You can typically get EVA grips for $2-$5 each.

I was just trying to make a point about thumb burn and breaking the line on a cast. In real life it won't happen and you won't worry about it. I was just trying to better explain the differences in rod action.

Be safe

If you haven't selected a blank, the Shooter MHX from Mudhole could be what your looking for.

Just watched a bass tourney on Lake Okeechobee on TV, and, as usual, slower actions were the most common. They may have been heavy power, but most were bending through the length of the rod. Less so on the guys who were fishing short and sometimes almost vertically in the heavy grass/reeds. Just an observation without interpretation.

Michael,
I assume you’re referring to the crank-baiters. I too have seen what you described and it puzzled me because I never really bought into the argument that a slow action was advantageous with crankbaits. (I made reference to this in my other post (Action vs. Tip Stiffness)). I’ve since made several measurements of (factory) crankbait rods vs. standard (non-crankbait) rods with the same power ratings (given by the manufacturers), and the crankbait rods are usually much lower powered than their “standard” counterparts.
I suspect that those “heavy” powered crankbait rods you saw are significantly less power than a “standard” heavy rating. Whether “Fast” or “slow”, they would easily bend throughout the length.

All I know is that many of the rods on the show bent right into the grip area. I don't know if they were called crankbait rods or or not and I don't know the power ratings. I expect they are toward the heavy side rather than the light side as they have to be exerting significant force on the fish in order to horse them the way they do. I don't remember seeing one of the fishermen casting cranks. Lures that I saw were all plastic.

These guys are among those who I would expect would be least tolerant of losing a fish so I have to conclude they think they are upping their odds by using slower actions.

They also probably don't worry much about breaking a rod, and they are not inclined to spend any unnecessary time playing a fish. They just yank them out of the water as quickly as possible using the rods only except for the big ones.

What all this means, I'm not sure. But they do appear to be using a lot of slow action rods.

Michael,
In reference to your previous post where you state your preferences for slow action for crankbaits and fast action for spinnerbaits, I’m really curious to know what the power/action ratings (CCS or RDA) are for each of those rods, using the same lure weight. I’d say that your preferences are probably more consistent with conventional wisdom than mine are. Although I use a little different system for the measurement of Power, I’ll still be able to relate to your relative high or low values.

Jim,
You have raised some interesting points.

Rather, I take a bit different vein when it comes to the fishing that I do up here in the midwest. First, I don't do any bass fishing. Rather, I mainly fish for walleyes, so they tend to live in different areas, and the fishing styles tend to be a bit different than for bass fishing.

So, simply put - If I am live bait fishing - as is very common - in this part of the country, I tend to use moderate action rods. The big advantage of using moderate action rods for live bait fishing is that the bait accelerates much more slowly on the cast and doesn't get ripped off, as is the case for a faster action rod. When I have found a moderate action rod that I like, I will start with very light power rods, and see how they are working for the day, for the depth that I am fishing. I have found that for this style fishing that using the lightest power available - and hence the lightest tip available, I get the best visual (by watching the tip of the rod) alert of a bite, than with the use of a higher power rod. However, if the fish are larger in an area, and or if I am using more weight to get to the fish; then I will go to a higher power rod of the same type moderate action.

I find that the same thing to be true for crank bait casting and for crank bait trolling. For these light biting fish, a great deal of the bite is seen, but not necessarily felt. So, again, a moderate actin soft tipped rod with just enough power to work the bait that I am using for the day, at the depth that I want to fish. If I am fishing deep with deep divers, I will be using a higher powered rod.

For both of the above cases, I will go from a 0 power to about a 2 power rod. Almost never more than a 2 power rod for this sort of fishing.

Then, we can talk about jig fishing. This is a different animal where it is necessary to have a very quick hook set for the best success. So, I will be going to a fast or an extra fast tipped rod. Then, again, depending on the depth I am fishing and the weight of the jig that I am fishing I will vary the power from 0-4. But in all of these cases, the bite is much more of a "feel" bite as opposed to a "visual" bite. Feel the bite, and rip the jig back.
This is for casting and lobbing jigs in shallower water.

But if it comes to deeper water and heavier jigs just fishing over the side of the boat, I tend to stay with the fast or extra fast tipped rods,but the rods will be shorter and will tend to be more powerful by a number of 1-3 more powerful than the similar type jig being cast or lobbed for more shallow fishing. Again, when a fish hits, a quick vertical lift of the rod tip and the fish is hooked.

Then, we can get into the whole issue of trolling - long line trolling, planer board trolling or rigger trolling. Again, each type trolling requires a different rod in both length speed and power. But we can save that discussion for another day.

Summary -
I just simplify the thoughts. I use the lightest power possible for most fishing. I will use either slow, moderate, fast, or extra fast tipped rods, of a given power to give me the bait, casting action and hook setting power that I need for a given day and for the type fishing that I am doing. I really don't get too hung up on measuring power. Rather, I can flex a rod, note the power, and speed of the rod at a glance that is good enough to easily make a good rod selection for the type fishing that I am going to do at that instant in time. If I find that I need something different, I will reach into the rod locker and grab a rod that I suspect will work better and give it a go.

Just some thoughts from a different point of view from the currently frozen north part of the upper midwest.

p.s.
If I go on a fishing trip to unfamiliar waters, say in Canada or other areas, I will generally bring about 20 rods with me for starters. After the first day, I am down to about 10 rods, By the 2nd day I am down to about 5 rods, and then for the rest of the week, I will likely only have about 3 rods on the boat to do the type fishing for the waters that I have explored. I am of the school where I don't like extra equipment or tackle on the boat, so by midweek I am carrying very little tackle and only a few rods for successful fishing days on the water.
I do know all of the numbers on my rods, but I just let the fish tell me what I need to use to catch the crafty characters on a given day. Then, I will note that and store the information away to be used for future builds and to forward to my clients during future rod builds.


Be safe

Roger,
Very well said and I agree with your approach in almost every instance….at least in theory.
I think that Bass anglers tend to lean toward heavier powers…… sometimes for good reason….sometimes not. Maybe Southern waters promote testosterone poisoning (snicker). I did live in Minnesota for ten years and I remember some advice regarding low powered rods from a bass fisherman friend (and tournament fisherman). “If you want to play (with) the fish, wait ‘til they’re in the boat”. Ha.
While I personally tend to prefer slower/moderate action rods, It’s when I go to the heavier powers, that faster actions are preferable…. unless conditions dictate I need a stiffer (less flexible) tip. Early in the season when there is little or no weed growth, I usually fish with my “medium” and “med-hvy” powered rods, sometimes even spinning gear. As the season progresses and weeds thicken, I’ll go to the heavier powers so that I can better control the fish in the heavier cover. The faster action makes it a little easier to cast without having to put a lot of effort into trying to load the less flexible part of the rod. The equivalent heavy rods with slow/moderate actions are more difficult to load when casting, especially with relatively light baits. I believe that selecting the right action becomes far more critical with heavier powered rods than with lighter powered rods. And I think it’s especially true for spinning setups.
As you said the conditions should dictate what rods we select, although many times our preferences tend to contradict what common sense should tell us (Ha). There are also times when trade-offs have to be made when conflicting requirements are encountered and this makes selection a little more complicated.