I have been building rods for 35 years with the last 3 as a steady legitimate side business. Never have had an issue or complaint after an untold amount of custom rods built. Well my luck just ran out.
After a customer picked up his 2 Med/Hvy saltwater rods today he went home and did some casting and then tied off to see what kind of bend the rod would have. He told me he was not exerting that much
pressure when the rod broke just past the third guide(around 10''-11"). I prep the guides very well and always make sure the bottom of the guides are burr free. These are high end blanks. Was wondering what any
of you guys do if under a similar circumstance. Needless to say the customer is very upset. I am trying to figure out the best action as I pride myself on customer service. Will probably refund him the money and deal
with the blank manufacturer myself. The best I think I will do is maybe get a replacement blank from them. Will probably have to eat the custom grips and the $45 Alps reel seat as well as everything else. At least the
Fuji HBSIC guides are still good. Any input would be great as I have to see about adjusting my build contracts so if this ever happens again. Oh and Merry Christmas to all you fellow builders!!
Tim Wiehe
Classic Cast Custom Rods

Do you have a good up close photo of the break area?

...............

Tim -

Sorry for your troubles. Makes me sick just to hear about it. The first thing i would do is have them tell me and show me - in detail - exactly what they did to 'test' the rod. Sometimes just by making them tell the story three times it will change and turn in to a mea culpa. I know that sounds cynical but it often works. Just saying...

I would then very carefully inspect the blank where the breakage occurred. May times you can conclusively tell what caused the rod to fail by examing the failure. There was a definitive article on this in an early issue of RodMaker but someone will have to help me with whidh one. Read that article (and be ready to share it with your client).

Once you inspect the failure, you will have a very good idea of whether it was defect or abuse. And from there I would decide how to handle it. If it was abuse, you can either have the conversation with your client or send it back to the blank manufacturer who will often confirm your findings. And in this case you have the second, unbroken rod as evidence that you con't have a critical flaw in your construction techniques. I would suggest you repair at a reasonable cost or replace atr a slight discount in the event of failure.

If it was a defect - and the manufacturer warrants and replaces the blank - you are sort of stuck doing the rebuild for free (in my opinion). But these are rare...I have never seen one actually in 20 years of building. Hope this helps.

Tim,
One thing that I as well as many others do, before ever building on a blank is to do a deep flex on the blank. Basically this simulates the worst bend that the blank should ever be subjected to. If the blank holds up to that bend, it will generally hold up to most bends that a customer will subject the rod.

If the blank breaks during your testing of the deep flex, you have no time or money in components or into the build.

Basically, take the blank to about a 90 degree flex point as would be the case during a big fish retrieval.

Good luck and be safe

Tim,
One thing that I as well as many others do, before ever building on a blank is to do a deep flex on the blank. Basically this simulates the worst bend that the blank should ever be subjected to. If the blank holds up to that bend, it will generally hold up to most bends that a customer will subject the rod.

If the blank breaks during your testing of the deep flex, you have no time or money in components or into the build.

Basically, take the blank to about a 90 degree flex point as would be the case during a big fish retrieval.

Good luck and be safe

I agree with Rogers pratice of exercising the blank before the build to ensure that the blank is worthy but, I would never return anyones money or rebuild the rod after they did that. The rod was not intended to be used in that way. What was the measure of control. I demonstrate the power of the rod when he comes to pick it up with him holding the rod. What lb./test line was on the reel at the time it broke? If someone told you their rod broke after they tied it off to a F-350, what would you think?

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 11:55AM by Dennis Danku.

Thanks for the reply's guys. I contacted a builder I know that is highly respected and he told me the same thing Roger. I will be stress testing all blanks from now on, especially the saltwater builds. I refunded the customer his money on the broken rod and will deal with the manufacturer myself. I am going to finish the build out on the other 5 and and recommend he find another builder. He is quite particular on his rods and not worth the effort to keep him pleased. I have had to rewrap several already as he decided to do a color change mid stream. But the customer is always right:)

Tim,

I too have been building rods for about 30-35 years and as of yet I have not experience to problems you encountered with that build. I do flex the rods to 90 degrees with static loading for guide positioning. I right now am building another rod for a guy who is also very "picky" and he make me nervous. He fancies himself as quite the good stick; but has only been fishing for about 4 to 5 years. I am waiting for him to bring me back a broken rod from High Sticking or abuse. Perhaps I should discourage his future patronage as I can not afford eating a rod build and the accompanying components. There isn't enough money in a build to eat one and not spend the rest of the year making up for it!

So far I've been lucky; but my turn, I am sure, is coming down the road. ' Sorry to hear about your experience with that particular customer, there's always one bag egg in the basket! Although most are understanding, once the issue is explained to them!

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Tim,
If the rod is any thing that you might use, I would just mend the rod and keep it for my self.
Use an inner and outer sleeve and you will be good to go for a long time.

For customers who have broken a rod, due to their negligence, I will offer to do this for them at close to 0 cost. Even though the repair is visible, it is still a very usable rod and still has the character that the customer wanted.


For many of the customers to which this has happened, they will generally order another duplicate rod to the first one at full price.

The other thing that I have done for a couple customers to which this happened, is to cut the grip off about 4 inches in front of the grip. Then, I splice in a new blank and reuse the guides and tip for the new build. This way, the rod ends up being longer but all of the handle and reel seat is reused for the customer.

There has never been an issue with a client wanting the rod replaced for free, since they all knew that the fault was caused by negligence on the part of the user, storage, or other accident.

The only time that I ever had a factory problem with a blank was a certain model of blank by a well known manufacturer. They had brought out a new blank that was perfect for the stated application. However, in their design, they effectively patched two different tapers together to get the action that the customers wanted for this particular rod. I had several of these blanks break at the - taper transition. In each case the manufacturer gave me new blanks plus fees for each of the defective blanks.
After a redesign on the part of the manufacturer, there were no more manufacturer caused breaks with this particular model blank.

Be safe

The key to the problem may be "he went home and did some casting and then tied off ".

There are a lot of people who are lacking in casting skills. We usually consider high sticking to occur when a fish is being landed. However, the same effect can occur during a cast when the lead/sinker travels inside the tip (meaning the angle between the rod and line is less than 90 degrees). Breakage from this type of cast takes place in the upper part of the tip section. This problem will be amplified when using heavier sinkers.

So, there is a possibility that damage was done during the test casts and subsequent failure occurred as a result of the casting technique.

Hope this helps.

Merry Christmas,
Don

Don Becker

Show Tom a close up photo , I bet he can give real good idea how the break was done.

I will get one done when I get a chance. Holiday stuff you know. It broke on the reel seat side, 3rd guide down(about 11") and about an 1/8" down from guide foot. Ya, Don he was casting a 6oz weight. He seemed real bumbed when I told him that I was finishing up with him. Roger when I get rod back from rod rep(getting it to him first of next week) I will definitely have to see about sleeving it as the handle is probably the nicest one I ever custom made. And I can always use another rod in my arsenal:) I may contact you to get some tips as I have little experience in the sleeving dept. Thanks again guys. Ho Ho Ho.

Tim I think you might be to nice lol. When he started to make color changes to the threads I would have charged him to do it. I bet you would have found out really quick at that point if it was someone you wanted to keep doing buisness with. As far as the rod breaking gos I would have never given him his money back. Remember you didn't make the blank. I would have gave him a deal on the rebuild but I wouldn't have given his money back.

Thanks for the compliment Jimmy. I did charge him for the color change and I was stuck with him as I had already completed 7 rods with 5 more in various levels of being finished. And at least 3 more that he wants to order. Those are the ones that I am most likely bowing out on. My premise for this thread was to maybe get some various input on the ways to handle issues when dealing with customers when problems arise. I have been lucky as most of all my previous customers have been very happy with many returning more than once. Thanks again and Merry Christmas to all.

Tim,
I certainly wouldn't bow out on this fellow for a customer. He have given you thousands of dollars of business. When a customer spends money like this, he can feel a bit entitled, and with good reason.

Since it is a custom rod, he is certainly entitled to have the rod that he wants. If it takes two or three rebuilds and if he pays for the rebuilds, go for it and keep right on buidling. Whether you are doing a new build or a rebuild due to a color change, as long as the customer is picking up the bill, enjoy the business.

I learned many many years ago, that a really good customer is generally hard to find, and even harder to keep as a good customer. So, you are certainly doing things right in that the customer has given you all of this work.

Be safe

Listen to Roger

Bill - willierods.com

You need to inspect the rod! "did some test casting (6oz weight) then tied it off to see what kind of bend it would have..... Could he have inadvertently knicked the blankd with a weight? A break between guides happens - but normally it is because of a customer doing something the rod was never intended to do - high sticking is one example.

I would (if you haven't) ask him how the rod is going to be used - you didn't say if this was a live bait, casting, drifting rod etc. and what terminal tackle weight is the maximum.

Definitely test the new / replacement blank before starting the new build (possibly with some new information from the angler on use).

Your choice to strip all the components (including the reel seat & reusing or add a new rod to your personal rod rack. Personally I think I'd fix it & keep it - then it's more your choice on overall length / use - maybe just put on a tip top & re-purpose it from a live bait / casting rod to a jigging rod.

You need to inspect the rod! "did some test casting (6oz weight) then tied it off to see what kind of bend it would have..... Could he have inadvertently knicked the blankd with a weight? A break between guides happens - but normally it is because of a customer doing something the rod was never intended to do - high sticking is one example.

I would (if you haven't) ask him how the rod is going to be used - you didn't say if this was a live bait, casting, drifting rod etc. and what terminal tackle weight is the maximum.

Definitely test the new / replacement blank before starting the new build (possibly with some new information from the angler on use).

Your choice to strip all the components (including the reel seat & reusing or add a new rod to your personal rod rack. Personally I think I'd fix it & keep it - then it's more your choice on overall length / use - maybe just put on a tip top & re-purpose it from a live bait / casting rod to a jigging rod.

You need to inspect the rod! "did some test casting (6oz weight) then tied it off to see what kind of bend it would have..... Could he have inadvertently knicked the blankd with a weight? A break between guides happens - but normally it is because of a customer doing something the rod was never intended to do - high sticking is one example.

I would (if you haven't) ask him how the rod is going to be used - you didn't say if this was a live bait, casting, drifting rod etc. and what terminal tackle weight is the maximum.

Definitely test the new / replacement blank before starting the new build (possibly with some new information from the angler on use).

Your choice to strip all the components (including the reel seat & reusing or add a new rod to your personal rod rack. Personally I think I'd fix it & keep it - then it's more your choice on overall length / use - maybe just put on a tip top & re-purpose it from a live bait / casting rod to a jigging rod.

That is why I Prefer to use on Saltwater rods a composit blank Stronger and ya don't go thought this type of thing
But like said it sounds like High Sticking

Bill - willierods.com